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Galactic Escalation: Round 1 Options
thereisnotry
Posted: Thursday, November 10, 2022 10:13:22 PM
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Mando wrote:
Important Rule exception for subsequent round squad building: Being that there is no 1pt piece, if you are short 1pt to reach a build total, you may carry that 1pt over into the next rounds build total. This is the only exception to adding 50pts in round 2 & 3, giving you 51pts instead if either Round 1 build total is 99pt and Round 2 build total is 149pts.

It's a good thing you clarified this now.

I was planning to be 8pts short in the first round (100pt) so that I could add 58pts of stuff for the 2nd round (150pt). I thought that's what we could do, since we're adding 50pts to the squad total every round, and we can't change any of the pieces (if we're not upgrading to a more expensive version of one unique piece). But if I can't bank or save some points from one round to make room for something in a later round, then the entire development that I came up with for my squad is worthless.

Ugh. I'll see if I can find something else to play.
Udorian84
Posted: Friday, November 11, 2022 4:15:56 AM
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thereisnotry wrote:
Mando wrote:
Important Rule exception for subsequent round squad building: Being that there is no 1pt piece, if you are short 1pt to reach a build total, you may carry that 1pt over into the next rounds build total. This is the only exception to adding 50pts in round 2 & 3, giving you 51pts instead if either Round 1 build total is 99pt and Round 2 build total is 149pts.

It's a good thing you clarified this now.

I was planning to be 8pts short in the first round (100pt) so that I could add 58pts of stuff for the 2nd round (150pt). I thought that's what we could do, since we're adding 50pts to the squad total every round, and we can't change any of the pieces (if we're not upgrading to a more expensive version of one unique piece). But if I can't bank or save some points from one round to make room for something in a later round, then the entire development that I came up with for my squad is worthless.

Ugh. I'll see if I can find something else to play.



I smell some mando build going on. I was going through who the 50 or restriction hurts the most and since tarre, jangolore, vindicated all cost more then 50 and have no upgrades I thought it was them.

Sith right now have bane, cognus, Tulak... You can build the exact squad you just did for October.
thereisnotry
Posted: Friday, November 11, 2022 8:24:14 AM
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Udorian84 wrote:
Sith right now have bane, cognus, Tulak... You can build the exact squad you just did for October.
I could use the Sith again...but I just played them 5 or 6 times in a row, and another 8-12 games with them doesn't sound nearly as appealing as 8-12 games with another squad entirely.

I just really wish that (if you can't drop any of your characters from 1 squad to another) we had the option to intentionally short our squad at any round because we want the room to make a certain choice in the next round. We wouldn't be gaining any advantage by doing so, but rather the opposite: we'd have a harder battle (sometimes much harder) during the round in which we're playing with 92pts, or 146, or whatever it ends up being.

spryguy1981
Posted: Friday, November 11, 2022 8:45:33 AM
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I honestly think that we should be able to either short ourselves points in a round to help us achieve what we want to for the next round. As it stands I know of a few people (myself included) who have things they want to add to their squad but can't necessarily do that because of building restrictions. I suggest either allowing someone to short their squad by 10pts or less up through round 3, not into Epic, or allowing for 10 points to be dropped at the end of the round to play something else. I think this helps balance things a little bit better. That's my .02 take it or leave it. But I think essentially we should have 60pts to build with from round to round.
Mando
Posted: Friday, November 11, 2022 4:22:11 PM
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thereisnotry wrote:


I just really wish that (if you can't drop any of your characters from 1 squad to another) we had the option to intentionally short our squad at any round because we want the room to make a certain choice in the next round. We wouldn't be gaining any advantage by doing so, but rather the opposite: we'd have a harder battle (sometimes much harder) during the round in which we're playing with 92pts, or 146, or whatever it ends up being.



I think we can make it work if you want to bank up to 10 points if you only put it towards 1 character in the next round. I just wanted to avoid people banking points to give them some more ability to add a counter things. So if you bank 6 points, you would need to spend them on a 56 PT character. I feel that this would be fair. I was worried people might bank 10 points and then add in 10 more points of things in the next round to counter what others are having. I probably was worried over nothing and seeing that many people are wanting to bank more than 1 point, I feel that 10 is a good enough number when combined with the upgrade option. I am going to say however that you can't bank points going into round 4. I would like keep the 175pts at that number for very specific reasons.
Mando
Posted: Friday, November 11, 2022 4:41:02 PM
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I have updated the rules to allow for banking up to 10 points towards round 2 and 3.
thereisnotry
Posted: Friday, November 11, 2022 6:34:23 PM
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Mando wrote:
I think we can make it work if you want to bank up to 10 points if you only put it towards 1 character in the next round. I just wanted to avoid people banking points to give them some more ability to add a counter things. So if you bank 6 points, you would need to spend them on a 56 PT character. I feel that this would be fair. I was worried people might bank 10 points and then add in 10 more points of things in the next round to counter what others are having. I probably was worried over nothing and seeing that many people are wanting to bank more than 1 point, I feel that 10 is a good enough number when combined with the upgrade option. I am going to say however that you can't bank points going into round 4. I would like keep the 175pts at that number for very specific reasons.
This makes no sense and seems needlessly restrictive. What if you want to get two 30pt characters for the next round? or a 25 and a 35pt character? or a 13 and a 45pt character (banking 2pts for the next round)? Not all characters or combinations of characters add up to a specific number (whether 50 or 60 or whatever). This is beginning to look more like a math problem than a SWM event.

Another option, instead of requiring extra points to be put into just 1 character in the next round, would've been to ask people to send in their squads for 100 and 150 (or maybe even 200 also) together, before the tournament begins. That would prevent people from gaming the system to gain an advantage by countering other squads. The thing is, I’m not sure that’s necessary anyway: just about every participant is going to have to carefully pre-plan each of their squads because otherwise they won’t be able to meet the squadbuilding requirements for each round…therefore they won’t have much (if any) room for customization, at all.
Ridgebeam
Posted: Friday, November 11, 2022 6:44:46 PM
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I just wanted to chime in and say this is a really cool concept!
gandalfthegreatestwizard
Posted: Friday, November 11, 2022 7:02:47 PM
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Certainly one of the concepts of all time.
Udorian84
Posted: Friday, November 11, 2022 7:08:27 PM
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it's a special format and is not going to appease everything we want (the game itself does not do that, but it's flaws are part of its character) I think the point is to be a little restrictive. Spry asked for a league. I threw out my idea but it didn't catch on. This one did I am going to try to honor the designer of the event by not asking for more. He has made a few concessions already to people's thoughts and desires. I for one decided to play and will probably be annoyed by restriction but at the end of the day what was perceived as annoyance becomes the very thing that is remembered and treasured about the event.
Mando
Posted: Friday, November 11, 2022 8:18:38 PM
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thereisnotry wrote:
Mando wrote:
I think we can make it work if you want to bank up to 10 points if you only put it towards 1 character in the next round. I just wanted to avoid people banking points to give them some more ability to add a counter things. So if you bank 6 points, you would need to spend them on a 56 PT character. I feel that this would be fair. I was worried people might bank 10 points and then add in 10 more points of things in the next round to counter what others are having. I probably was worried over nothing and seeing that many people are wanting to bank more than 1 point, I feel that 10 is a good enough number when combined with the upgrade option. I am going to say however that you can't bank points going into round 4. I would like keep the 175pts at that number for very specific reasons.
This makes no sense and seems needlessly restrictive. What if you want to get two 30pt characters for the next round? or a 25 and a 35pt character? or a 13 and a 45pt character (banking 2pts for the next round)? Not all characters or combinations of characters add up to a specific number (whether 50 or 60 or whatever). This is beginning to look more like a math problem than a SWM event.

Another option, instead of requiring extra points to be put into just 1 character in the next round, would've been to ask people to send in their squads for 100 and 150 (or maybe even 200 also) together, before the tournament begins. That would prevent people from gaming the system to gain an advantage by countering other squads. The thing is, I’m not sure that’s necessary anyway: just about every participant is going to have to carefully pre-plan each of their squads because otherwise they won’t be able to meet the squadbuilding requirements for each round…therefore they won’t have much (if any) room for customization, at all.


I think I can see your point, and I do appreciate the feedback! It does seem a bit restrictive to limit it to 1 mini if you bank up to 10 points, which was actually going against my original plan of being able to bank 1 point. I had originally allowed people to use the 51 pts however they wished. So I feel that your point about allowing multiple minis to be used is a good suggestion. I will update the rules for banking points accordingly.

I would like people to not feel so restrictive in squad building. Sorry for all the confusion.... this format is new and will have some growing pains. I'm just happy people are excited about it and I hope it is fun for people! I've been thinking about this kind of tournament format for years after I heard about other games doing something similar and it working there.

I really appreciate everyone's feedback on this event! It shows people are passionate about the game and want to see something new succeed. Galactic Escalation is like building a car. You start out with a base frame, add a few modifications and then you add some bling on it for the final touch-up and it's all suped up and awesome for the race.
urbanjedi
Posted: Friday, November 11, 2022 8:44:35 PM
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I am still confused how the duos interact with the ability to upgrade a character?

Can I upgrade from Luke Farmboy to Luke's Landspeeder?
Or Han Solo to Epic Han and Chewie?
Or GOWK to Ani-Obi?

Or what about the other way around?
Luke's Landspeeder to Epic Luke?

I am considering signing up for this but just trying to figure out how the upgrading works

Thanks in advance
Mando
Posted: Saturday, November 12, 2022 3:51:49 AM
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urbanjedi wrote:
I am still confused how the duos interact with the ability to upgrade a character?

Can I upgrade from Luke Farmboy to Luke's Landspeeder?
Or Han Solo to Epic Han and Chewie?
Or GOWK to Ani-Obi?

Or what about the other way around?
Luke's Landspeeder to Epic Luke?

I am considering signing up for this but just trying to figure out how the upgrading works

Thanks in advance


I think it will probably be fine to upgrade into a team piece. I was initially not wanting to have it work that way, but there are few pieces that count towards that, so it probably will be fine. The only thing I will say is that you if you have Chewbacca and Han in your squad, you wouldn't be able to upgrade into the Han and Chewie epic because you would have an extra Chewie or Han in addition to the team piece. However, if you have just one Han or Chewie going into round 4, you can upgrade either of those to get the Epic duo. I won't usually allow going from a duo piece however to a single character piece. It's the intent that you use everything that contributes to a round to carry over to the next. If you can somehow get the duo to be in the next round, it can be allowed if you have both characters represented by their mini's. You could upgrade Luke's land speeder to Luke and Leia on speeder only if you have a rebel Obi wan in that next round. How I will likewise allow a duo to upgrade into a Epic, is that you would need to have the duo character be your second mini in the 175pts you have available. So for example, you couldn't go from Luke's land speeder to Epic Luke if you don't have Obi wan as your second. However, you can use most rebel versions of Obi Wan as your second mini because they mostly fit into the cost difference between Luke's land speeder and Epic Luke being subtracted from the 175pts given. I think there are only a few interactions like this, so hopefully it isn't to confusing. In a nutshell, if you can get all characters to be represented from round to round, I am fine with it. The intent of the format is again to add things and not take away, so I don't want people to take away Obi Wan or Leia or Yoda if they choose to go from the duo piece with Luke into a single version of Luke in the next round.
Mando
Posted: Saturday, November 12, 2022 6:38:37 AM
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To illustrate how the upgrading to a duo piece would work and how to go from a duo piece to a non duo piece, thankfully we have the Rebel faction to highlight it. This is the most bizarre situation that can occur, so it's a good time to show it.

Ok so here is how it would work:

Round 1: you have Luke's land speeder (47pts)
Round 2: you want to upgrade Luke to Luke and Leia on speeder (55pts), so to do so, you would need to take the difference (55-47=8) to go towards your 50 pts for next round. If you bank points, this can increase your 50pts accordingly. So let's use 50 for simplicity. That leaves you with 42pts. This would mean you would have to include a rebel version of Obi wan in that total in addition to any other pieces you want to add.
Round 3: you want to upgrade Luke and Leia on speeder 55pts) to Luke and Yoda (70pts). You take the difference (70-55=15) leaving you with 35pts for the next round. Part of the 35pts needs to go towards a Rebel Leia. The rest can go towards whatever.
Round 4: you want to upgrade Luke and Yoda (70) to Epic Luke (156). Take the difference (156-70=86) and subtract that from 175pts you have available for round 4 to go towards a Epic+1 more mini. Your Epic miniature is already taken care of with the upgrade, but your second mini would have to be a rebel version of Yoda.

Hope this all makes sense to everyone! Sorry its a bit complicated, but it does mean that every character that you have that counts as that character gets included in subsequent rounds.
Caedus
Posted: Saturday, November 12, 2022 6:42:54 AM
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Mando wrote:
To illustrate how the upgrading to a duo piece would work and how to go from a duo piece to a non duo piece, thankfully we have the Rebel faction to highlight it. This is the most bizarre situation that can occur, so it's a good time to show it.

Ok so here is how it would work:

Round 1: you have Luke's land speeder (47pts)
Round 2: you want to upgrade Luke to Luke and Leia on speeder (55pts), so to do so, you would need to take the difference (55-47=8) to go towards your 50 pts for next round. If you bank points, this can increase your 50pts accordingly. So let's use 50 for simplicity. That leaves you with 42pts. This would mean you would have to include a rebel version of Obi wan in that total in addition to any other pieces you want to add.
Round 3: you want to upgrade Luke and Leia on speeder 55pts) to Luke and Yoda (70pts). You take the difference (70-55=15) leaving you with 35pts for the next round. Part of the 35pts needs to go towards a Rebel Leia. The rest can go towards whatever.
Round 4: you want to upgrade Luke and Yoda (70) to Epic Luke (156). Take the difference (156-70=86) and subtract that from 175pts you have available for round 4 to go towards a Epic+1 more mini. Your Epic miniature is already taken care of with the upgrade, but your second mini would have to be a rebel version of Yoda.

Hope this all makes sense to everyone! Sorry its a bit complicated, but it does mean that every character that you have that counts as that character gets included in subsequent rounds.



Outstanding!!!!!
Ridgebeam
Posted: Saturday, November 12, 2022 7:44:12 AM
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gandalfthegreatestwizard wrote:
Certainly one of the concepts of all time.


Haha! Sorry for the typo, Gandalf. The OP now includes an adverb.

Still, what "A" concept. LOL

I came up with a modified game type called "Galactic Civil War" in 2019. I Built a website with an interactive planet map. The game type had a design-concept I called "Persistent Squads" which included a point buy process to upgrade minis. I used Roll20 to build everything because I could automate things like token attacks and token sound effects. Tokens had one click actions that allowed you to pick a target with your cursor... I used scenarios to keep squads "even" for certain wars on certain planets...and so much more!

Man...

I never got it off the ground... although had/have plenty of interest with a plethora of new-recruits. The ease of play through roll20 is second to none (although it was a lot of work for my part). Same with the ability to find new players. I recruit a TON of new people to the Discord just by actively advertising my "Galactic Civil War" game on Roll20.

..Reading Mando's Galactic Escalation really makes me want to PLAY SWM and start the development of my game type again!

Well done!
Udorian84
Posted: Saturday, November 12, 2022 6:57:16 PM
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Ready to send my squad in!
Mando
Posted: Saturday, November 12, 2022 7:06:30 PM
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Udorian84 wrote:
Ready to send my squad in!


Still trying to figure out mine lol. When I have it ready I'll send it to a third party and will let everyone know and you can then send me your squads.
thereisnotry
Posted: Sunday, November 13, 2022 9:32:49 AM
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Mando wrote:
Sorry for all the confusion.... this format is new and will have some growing pains. I'm just happy people are excited about it and I hope it is fun for people! I've been thinking about this kind of tournament format for years after I heard about other games doing something similar and it working there.

I really appreciate everyone's feedback on this event! It shows people are passionate about the game and want to see something new succeed. Galactic Escalation is like building a car. You start out with a base frame, add a few modifications and then you add some bling on it for the final touch-up and it's all suped up and awesome for the race.
Yeah, I'm really excited about it! It's new and innovative, and I wonder if it might even end up being one of those formats that shows up a lot at GenCon and VassalCon (though probably 1 round per point level, for time's sake).
Caedus
Posted: Sunday, November 13, 2022 11:59:13 AM
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Mando wrote:
To illustrate how the upgrading to a duo piece would work and how to go from a duo piece to a non duo piece, thankfully we have the Rebel faction to highlight it. This is the most bizarre situation that can occur, so it's a good time to show it.

Ok so here is how it would work:

Round 1: you have Luke's land speeder (47pts)
Round 2: you want to upgrade Luke to Luke and Leia on speeder (55pts), so to do so, you would need to take the difference (55-47=8) to go towards your 50 pts for next round. If you bank points, this can increase your 50pts accordingly. So let's use 50 for simplicity. That leaves you with 42pts. This would mean you would have to include a rebel version of Obi wan in that total in addition to any other pieces you want to add.
Round 3: you want to upgrade Luke and Leia on speeder 55pts) to Luke and Yoda (70pts). You take the difference (70-55=15) leaving you with 35pts for the next round. Part of the 35pts needs to go towards a Rebel Leia. The rest can go towards whatever.
Round 4: you want to upgrade Luke and Yoda (70) to Epic Luke (156). Take the difference (156-70=86) and subtract that from 175pts you have available for round 4 to go towards a Epic+1 more mini. Your Epic miniature is already taken care of with the upgrade, but your second mini would have to be a rebel version of Yoda.

Hope this all makes sense to everyone! Sorry its a bit complicated, but it does mean that every character that you have that counts as that character gets included in subsequent rounds.


I like that this is an "escalation" and not a "rebuild squad" event. I do like the prospect of upgrading to larger costed mini by banking and upgrading and not by totally reworking your squad. I especially like that when you "down grade" you have to keep the same characters in the squad. Makes for more interesting squad builds and more meta guessing rather than just waiting to see what someone plays and then counter it.


**Note** The balance/rules committee should pay attention to this so that reinforcements can get the needed change. You shouldn't just be able to pick your "sideboard" from every piece in the game at the time of your match
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