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Mandalorian Pascifists Options
zorc62
Posted: Saturday, February 6, 2010 4:15:25 PM
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Regarding the CW episodes, I can see most of it fitting in except this: Duchess Satine claims she does not understand how Jango got Mandalorian armor. Based on the context, she is almost suggesting he was a member of the Death Watch. Even if she was New Mandalorian and he was True Mandalorian, she should still have known who he was considering he was Mandalore.
Sithborg
Posted: Saturday, February 6, 2010 4:42:09 PM
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I am going to say that Mandalore is not a title recognized by the New Mandalorians. Considering Mandalore can be seen as more of a war leader than political, I can easily see that. Of course, Jango wasn't a good person, remember. I mean, he was a Bounty Hunter and assassin, not to mention working for the Seperatists, so Satine would really want to deny any connections to him.

Eroschilles
Posted: Saturday, February 6, 2010 5:26:52 PM
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zorc62 wrote:
Eroschilles wrote:
And in the RC books, she made it appear as if the Jedi didn't ever have a clue what was going on and didn't know how to conduct a war; it was only the Mandos who did.


Are you suggesting that peace-loving monks whose combat skills are focused on individual combat as opposed to directing armies are going to be as strategically capable as mercenaries whose entire life was about warfare?


Are you suggesting hired mercenaries who are much more used to smaller scale conflicts due to their limited numbers are as strategicially capable as peace loving warrior monks who have had great deal more leadership roles thrust upon them as well as being involved as military leaders and advisors previously to the Clone Wars?


zorc62 wrote:
Eroschilles wrote:
The difference between the KOTOR Mandos and the Traviss Mandos is that the KOTOR Mandos were favorably impressed with the Jedi's battle prowess while the Traviss Mandos are disgusted by all Jedi and revile them.


I'm pretty sure it mainly presents the views of Kal and his group, who have a very good reason to revile the Jedi. I also kinda feel they deserved what they got (although the rest of the galaxy didn't) when Order 66 came for using a slave army where the soldiers were disposable and created just to serve in that army.


I would think the Jedi have just as much reason to revile Mandos with their questionable actions and violations of ROEs.

Most of the Jedi are depicted as being against the use of the clones as slaves and wanted them to have a future after the war. The GAR was created by the Sith and essentially answered to the Sith as Palpatine was in charge.

And I wasn't just refering to the Mandos in the RC books, but all the Mandos in the Legacy series seem to have a severe distrust of Jedi as well.


zorc62 wrote:
Eroschilles wrote:
I was referring to the Star Wars Tales comic book where Boba and Darth Vader engage in a lightsaber duel with no clear victor. I was under the impression that most of the Tales comics were non-canon.


Vader and Boba Fett also fight in the comic Boba Fett: Enemy of the Empire. In that fight, Boba could have killed Darth Vader but chose not to as doing so would have earned him the wrath of the Empire.


And Boba didn't have a lightsaber in that battle as I recall, which was the point of my earlier statement. And even with Boba's considerable skill, he was at the mercy of Darth Vader throughout the fight because of Vader's use of the force. Boba had a window of opportunity to shoot Vader in the back while Vader was chasing some object Boba had kicked away, but that doesn't mean Vader could not have spun around to defend himself.
qvos
Posted: Sunday, February 7, 2010 1:42:49 AM
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When Visla states that Jango wasn't a Mandalorian, He just stole the armor and was wearing it, That threw me for a loop. Not only does this go against the comic EU but surely contradicts Travis' works. Travis main premise is that anyone can be a Mando, Its not about a persons Blood line but more of a Culture, and a person can Become a Mando if they accept that culture. That is seen in the case Of Jusik and others.

She puts so much emphasis on the Armor and the different colors that watching the show where all the Mandos are dressed in Tunics and the only ones wearing armor are the Death Watch makes me wonder?

Ive read all the Travis Novels and I like them, I get a little irritated with the Liberties she has Taken but I realize that they are not totally her fault. It will be interesting to see how much of Travis' work gets crushed in the Lucas Grinder!!
zorc62
Posted: Sunday, February 7, 2010 1:51:23 PM
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Sithborg wrote:
I am going to say that Mandalore is not a title recognized by the New Mandalorians. Considering Mandalore can be seen as more of a war leader than political, I can easily see that. Of course, Jango wasn't a good person, remember. I mean, he was a Bounty Hunter and assassin, not to mention working for the Seperatists, so Satine would really want to deny any connections to him.



She does not just deny connections: SHE DENIES KNOWLEDGE OF HIS EXISTENCE!!! If she is trying to maintain diplomatic relations with the True Mandalorians (necessary to ensure that they do not overrun her pacifist group) then she is walking on thin ice if she denies the existence of their leader. (And of their entire group: it should be a fairly simple explanation that Jango must have been a True Mandalorian even if he was not Mandalore.)
trappedslider
Posted: Monday, February 8, 2010 7:20:04 AM
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qvos wrote:

Ive read all the Travis Novels and I like them, I get a little irritated with the Liberties she has Taken but I realize that they are not totally her fault. It will be interesting to see how much of Travis' work gets crushed in the Lucas Grinder!!


My recent SW memories have been ruined by GL AGAIN!Mad Sad Scared Cursing
Sithborg
Posted: Monday, February 8, 2010 3:10:15 PM
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Caught up with the second episode, though sadly lacking in Mandos (though the Mando Guards were pretty kick ass).

Again, I am not seeing the issue. As far as I am aware, Jango ceased to be a leader to any Mandalorians after Dooku and his Jedi killed off his commandos. And became what they called him, just a Bounty Hunter. If anything, that makes denying him more reasonable. And Vizla did not deny Jango, one of Satines New Mando advisors did.

They already set up Concordia to essentially be the Mandalore everyone remembers, so I don't see how much of this is ripping the EU.
Eroschilles
Posted: Monday, February 8, 2010 3:20:23 PM
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Maybe I missed it, but did they draw a connection between the two Vizlas?
Sithborg
Posted: Monday, February 8, 2010 3:39:20 PM
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Eroschilles wrote:
Maybe I missed it, but did they draw a connection between the two Vizlas?


Not directly mentioned.
Eroschilles
Posted: Monday, February 8, 2010 4:09:16 PM
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Sithborg wrote:
Eroschilles wrote:
Maybe I missed it, but did they draw a connection between the two Vizlas?


Not directly mentioned.


Was there any implication then? They are two different people, right? But could they be related possibly?
SquelchDog
Posted: Monday, February 8, 2010 10:47:02 PM
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Sithborg wrote:
Caught up with the second episode, though sadly lacking in Mandos (though the Mando Guards were pretty kick ass).


Loved those Mando Guards! ThumbsUp
LoboStele
Posted: Tuesday, February 9, 2010 3:00:25 AM
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Sithborg wrote:
Caught up with the second episode, though sadly lacking in Mandos (though the Mando Guards were pretty kick ass).

Again, I am not seeing the issue. As far as I am aware, Jango ceased to be a leader to any Mandalorians after Dooku and his Jedi killed off his commandos. And became what they called him, just a Bounty Hunter. If anything, that makes denying him more reasonable. And Vizla did not deny Jango, one of Satines New Mando advisors did.

They already set up Concordia to essentially be the Mandalore everyone remembers, so I don't see how much of this is ripping the EU.


Haven't had a chance to sit and watch the 2nd Mando ep yet, but here's why it's still a problem, IMO. After Dooku and the Jedi defeated the Mandos at Galidraan, Jango went on to Bounty Hunting simply because there were hardly any Mandos left! The Massacre at Galidraan is called a massacre because it nearly wiped out all of the Mandos. The population levels shown in these CW episodes are enormous compared to what's been described in the rest of the EU. Plus, at the time of the CW, in the RC novels, all the Mandos around are still aware that Jango was the Mandalore, and that since his death, they've been without a new Mandalore, until Fynn Shysa steps in. There's also the small time period where Kal and Fynn try to get Spar (Alpha ARC trooper deserter) to take on the role of Mandalore, pretending to be Boba. So, the reigning Mando culture is still fully aware of the title of Mandalore, and what that means to their culture.

Granted, I liked the explanation given in the earlier thread, and that I've seen in a couple different places. There's the possibility now that there are three distinct types of Mandos: New, True, and Death Watch. It's certainly plausible that the New Mandalorians just simply dismiss the True Mandalorians as merely Bounty Hunters, etc., because they weren't willing to go along with the peaceful ways. I'm willing to follow that line of logic for the most part.
Sithborg
Posted: Tuesday, February 9, 2010 3:15:02 AM
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Like I said, a little rejiggering in my head, and everything makes sense. Though, seeing the previews for the third episode (the second one was fairly Mando light), may cause huge headaches. All I know is, there was one Mando that did not have the Death Watch colors: Green....

And even if the episode was Mando light, god, I wanted so many minis from that episode. No I am sad....
SquelchDog
Posted: Tuesday, February 9, 2010 4:47:24 AM
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Sithborg wrote:
Like I said, a little rejiggering in my head, and everything makes sense. Though, seeing the previews for the third episode (the second one was fairly Mando light), may cause huge headaches. All I know is, there was one Mando that did not have the Death Watch colors: Green....

And even if the episode was Mando light, god, I wanted so many minis from that episode. No I am sad....


I think what burn's my britches the most, Glare is not being able to look forward to new Mando Mini's from the current Season 2. Crying

Oh well, life goes on. Wink
qvos
Posted: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 3:00:21 PM
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Well I just saw the second Mando Ep, and I thought it was pretty good... One question though,,,, How many love affairs did Obi-wan have.. Of course in the Eu He had a girlfriend , I can't remember her name though, I think It was Siri though.

Anyway, it suprised me that Obi was ready to Leave the Jedi Order.... Why would he not understand about Anikan and his relationship with Padme??
Eroschilles
Posted: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 8:06:43 PM
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qvos wrote:
Well I just saw the second Mando Ep, and I thought it was pretty good... One question though,,,, How many love affairs did Obi-wan have.. Of course in the Eu He had a girlfriend , I can't remember her name though, I think It was Siri though.

Anyway, it suprised me that Obi was ready to Leave the Jedi Order.... Why would he not understand about Anikan and his relationship with Padme??


I don't think at any point Obi wasn't understanding. I think even yoda knew about it. I think Anakin was just paranoid and presumptuous.
Sithborg
Posted: Thursday, February 11, 2010 3:05:11 AM
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Yeah, he never once took Anakin to task for his marriage in the movies. Of course, the whole Sith Apprentice thing might've been more on his mind, but I think it is indicated that he knew. And this episode really, really would emphasize why if he knew, he didn't take Anakin to task.
LoboStele
Posted: Thursday, February 11, 2010 4:36:28 AM
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Yeah, I always thought that Obi-Wan at least knew that Anakin and Padme were sweet on each other. I mean, he kind of have to be blind not to notice it, lol. I just always assumed that they were too busy fighting the war, and Anakin did such a great job as a Jedi otherwise, that they didn't make a fuss about Padme. Plus, I don't think they realized just how deep the relationship really was.

This last episode was really great though. I loved the interactions between OWK, Satine, and Anakin. The bit at the end where Tal Merrick was talking about who would out themselves as the "cold blooded killer" was very well written, IMO.

Greg Proops as the bad-guy cracked me up as well. He's awesome.

And Orn Free Taa's accent had me laughing the whole time. Not sure why.
Sithborg
Posted: Thursday, February 11, 2010 4:53:57 AM
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Yeah, that scene was just great in general. More of those, please.
carnorjax1
Posted: Saturday, February 13, 2010 5:03:18 PM
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LoboStele wrote:
Yeah, I always thought that Obi-Wan at least knew that Anakin and Padme were sweet on each other. I mean, he kind of have to be blind not to notice it, lol. I just always assumed that they were too busy fighting the war, and Anakin did such a great job as a Jedi otherwise, that they didn't make a fuss about Padme. Plus, I don't think they realized just how deep the relationship really was.

This last episode was really great though. I loved the interactions between OWK, Satine, and Anakin. The bit at the end where Tal Merrick was talking about who would out themselves as the "cold blooded killer" was very well written, IMO.

Greg Proops as the bad-guy cracked me up as well. He's awesome.

And Orn Free Taa's accent had me laughing the whole time. Not sure why.


I love how dead serious Obi and Satine are about killing Merrick, and Anakin stabs him in good humour. Orn Free Taa needs to get killed( or have a heart attack) He is possibly the worst Senator out there. (And yes, I know JarJar's a senator lol)
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