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Mandalorian Pascifists Options
SquelchDog
Posted: Thursday, January 28, 2010 11:12:14 PM
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CrunchBite wrote:
I dunno, I still think that the term "Mandalorian Pacifist" is an oxymoron...


Laugh I was waiting for someone to say that! BigGrin
LoboStele
Posted: Friday, January 29, 2010 7:08:48 AM
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Eroschilles wrote:
The main problem I have with Traviss' books are that she often puts Mandos as morally superior to the Jedi, even to the point where Jedi are conviced to become Mandos in the RC books. That and the conception that most Jedi are chump change to Mandos.

I realize it's just supposed to be from Mando point of view...


Well of course. You probably think you're morally superior to some other people, from your own point of view, right? Laugh

Seriously though, Traviss basically just uses the Mandos to sort of point out some fatal errors in the Jedi's way of thinking. And as it stands, there's only 2 Jedi out of the ENTIRE ORDER that decided to become Mandos. That's a VERY small amount if you think about it. And Traviss didn't start the ideas of Jedi being "chump change" compared to the Mandos. That was started with all the KOTOR stuff, honestly. In the OR-era, a Mando going 1-on-1 with a Jedi was not uncommon.

Eroschilles wrote:
but Boba being the best one to learn how to kill force users from is weird to me. Unless that one comic where he fights vader with a lightsaber is somehow canon to Traviss...


Why would it not be canon? It's not just that Boba is the best to learn how to kill Jedi. It's that he's the only one that Jaina could learn from, that Jacen wasn't already familiar with. The only other people who would be good for killing a Sith would've been other Jedi, and Jacen/Caedus was well familiar with their tactics. So, learning from Boba, who was not only capable of hunting Jedi, but ANY sort of prey in the galaxy, was a means fo Jaina to learn skills that Jacen wouldn't be prepared for.
Blizzard Scout 1
Posted: Friday, January 29, 2010 8:24:44 AM
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And i think Jaina went to Fett more so to help her Stop a Solo.
Sure, she got an added bonus out of Fett, him being one of the many Bounty Hunters to capitalize in the Purge of the Jedi during the Dark Times, but I believe it was the fact that Fett had caught her father that made her go the Way of learning from him.
One of the coolest parts of that book is when she whips out her LS when her and Fett were training, she tries to take a slice of the FETT, and gets the wind knocked out of her and then has a LS drawn on her. She was speechless. Too Cool.ThumpUp
yggral
Posted: Friday, January 29, 2010 1:35:24 PM
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hey it worked out in the episode it was good with the deathwatch the queen of mandalore was against war but death watch wasent
SquelchDog
Posted: Friday, January 29, 2010 10:28:07 PM
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I liked the episode I thought it was pretty good. BlooMilk
eMouse
Posted: Sunday, January 31, 2010 12:47:49 AM
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yggral wrote:
hey it worked out in the episode it was good with the deathwatch the queen of mandalore was against war but death watch wasent


The Deathwatch are with the Separatists and have apparently been involved in attacks on Republic ships. It looks like the events in these episodes are supposed to be shortly before Alpha 02 and the rebirth.

It also sounds like Dooku and the Deathwatch leadership are working to provoke the Republic into barricading or occupying Mandalore.
defender390
Posted: Sunday, January 31, 2010 3:02:26 AM
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I thought the episode sucked. I don't think Open Seasons are safe because I somehow doubt the mandalorians would let someone with the name Vizsla enter government. I also didn't see any examples of mandalorian culture like the the importance of family. Also, where were the mandalorian protectors? They were formed in 21 BBY. I think the show is after that.
eMouse
Posted: Sunday, January 31, 2010 3:23:55 AM
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defender390 wrote:
I also didn't see any examples of mandalorian culture like the the importance of family.


The leader of the Deathwatch told Obi-Wan that the lightsaber he gave Obi-Wan was stolen from the Jedi Temple by an ancestor and that his blade was a family heirloom that had been used to kill many Jedi.
SquelchDog
Posted: Sunday, January 31, 2010 3:28:56 AM
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Hopefully they will address certain issue's and such but there is only so much they can do in a 30 minute episode. Just my 2 cents. Smile
eMouse
Posted: Sunday, January 31, 2010 3:42:21 AM
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defender390 wrote:
Also, where were the mandalorian protectors? They were formed in 21 BBY. I think the show is after that.


Actually, based on the statement in the Wiki that the protectors are formed from remnants of the Deathwatch, I took it to mean that what's happening in the episode is prior. The story arc isn't over yet.
carnorjax1
Posted: Sunday, January 31, 2010 8:19:55 AM
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That was by far the coolest saber evah! Those Mando's armor sucked though. So was Governor Viszla the son of the dude Jango fights in Open Seasons?
LoboStele
Posted: Monday, February 1, 2010 9:23:35 AM
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Certainly waiting to see what the rest of the story arc has to offer, but they have already abolished several established EU parts. Oh well.

If I take myself completely away from the canon things though, it was a really good episode overall. I really liked the lightsaber in particular. :)
Eroschilles
Posted: Monday, February 1, 2010 11:52:52 AM
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LoboStele wrote:
Eroschilles wrote:
The main problem I have with Traviss' books are that she often puts Mandos as morally superior to the Jedi, even to the point where Jedi are conviced to become Mandos in the RC books. That and the conception that most Jedi are chump change to Mandos.

I realize it's just supposed to be from Mando point of view...


Well of course. You probably think you're morally superior to some other people, from your own point of view, right? Laugh

Seriously though, Traviss basically just uses the Mandos to sort of point out some fatal errors in the Jedi's way of thinking. And as it stands, there's only 2 Jedi out of the ENTIRE ORDER that decided to become Mandos. That's a VERY small amount if you think about it. And Traviss didn't start the ideas of Jedi being "chump change" compared to the Mandos. That was started with all the KOTOR stuff, honestly. In the OR-era, a Mando going 1-on-1 with a Jedi was not uncommon.



I understand her books are supposed to be from the Mando's point of view, but I think she goes a little over the top in them. In the Legacy books, it seems to me that she's trying to make Han Solo look like a raving mad man, jumping up and down out of rage when he couldn't assassinate his own cousin. And in the RC books, she made it appear as if the Jedi didn't ever have a clue what was going on and didn't know how to conduct a war; it was only the Mandos who did.

The difference between the KOTOR Mandos and the Traviss Mandos is that the KOTOR Mandos were favorably impressed with the Jedi's battle prowess while the Traviss Mandos are disgusted by all Jedi and revile them.


LoboStele wrote:
Eroschilles wrote:
but Boba being the best one to learn how to kill force users from is weird to me. Unless that one comic where he fights vader with a lightsaber is somehow canon to Traviss...


Why would it not be canon? It's not just that Boba is the best to learn how to kill Jedi. It's that he's the only one that Jaina could learn from, that Jacen wasn't already familiar with. The only other people who would be good for killing a Sith would've been other Jedi, and Jacen/Caedus was well familiar with their tactics. So, learning from Boba, who was not only capable of hunting Jedi, but ANY sort of prey in the galaxy, was a means fo Jaina to learn skills that Jacen wouldn't be prepared for.


I was referring to the Star Wars Tales comic book where Boba and Darth Vader engage in a lightsaber duel with no clear victor. I was under the impression that most of the Tales comics were non-canon.

I'm sure Boba has killed or captured Jedi before, and he is very valid person to learn fighting techniques from, but his Jedi and Solo destroying abilities were overplayed in the book methinks. Maybe I can chalk it up to the perspective the books were supposed to written from, but it still seems over-the-top with the reactions from the non-Mando characters.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed reading her books for the most part and I loved the way she expanded the Mando culture. However, I think she took it a couple of steps too far to prove their awesome skillz. I'm just as irritated when Luke Skywalker dices a dozen Sith Lords while sleep walking or whatever uberness they give him nowadays.
Demosthenes
Posted: Monday, February 1, 2010 12:20:56 PM
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I would prefer to see Mandos as just ornery guys who want to kill everything. And then proceed to kill everything. BigGrin
Sithborg
Posted: Tuesday, February 2, 2010 3:06:11 AM
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That was a good episode. Some great new characters. And it can all be easily worked out so far, but we will see how the other two Mando episodes go.

I really, really liked Satine, and loved her interactions with Obi-wan. The black Lightsaber was cool too, can't wait to see more of it and Viszla.
SquelchDog
Posted: Tuesday, February 2, 2010 4:12:51 AM
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Sithborg wrote:
That was a good episode. Some great new characters. And it can all be easily worked out so far, but we will see how the other two Mando episodes go.

I really, really liked Satine, and loved her interactions with Obi-wan. The black Lightsaber was cool too, can't wait to see more of it and Viszla.


Ya that black Lightsaber was way cool! ThumpUp
eMouse
Posted: Tuesday, February 2, 2010 6:13:18 AM
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Quote:
Ya that black Lightsaber was way cool! ThumpUp


I thought it was a standard blade with an effect to depict it as being 'magnetically shielded' or whatever you might be able to do to a metal blade to make it resistant to a lightsaber.
LoboStele
Posted: Tuesday, February 2, 2010 6:14:40 AM
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Yeah, I figured it was a vibroblade as well, with cortosis weaving or something similar. But Pre Vizsla actually called it a Lightsaber in the episode. Said it was one from the OR era.
eMouse
Posted: Tuesday, February 2, 2010 6:57:00 AM
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I think the line was confusing. He was either referring to the saber he tossed to Obi-Wan as being stolen and used to kill other Jedi, or he was referring to what he tossed Obi-Wan as being stolen, and his own blade as having killed many Jedi.

EDIT: Nevermind, looking up Wookiepedia, I completely misunderstood that part of the scene. He was returning Obi-Wan's saber and talking about his own as being stolen/killing many Jedi. So apparently it was a lightsaber.
zorc62
Posted: Saturday, February 6, 2010 4:11:23 PM
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Eroschilles wrote:
And in the RC books, she made it appear as if the Jedi didn't ever have a clue what was going on and didn't know how to conduct a war; it was only the Mandos who did.


Are you suggesting that peace-loving monks whose combat skills are focused on individual combat as opposed to directing armies are going to be as strategically capable as mercenaries whose entire life was about warfare?

Eroschilles wrote:
The difference between the KOTOR Mandos and the Traviss Mandos is that the KOTOR Mandos were favorably impressed with the Jedi's battle prowess while the Traviss Mandos are disgusted by all Jedi and revile them.


I'm pretty sure it mainly presents the views of Kal and his group, who have a very good reason to revile the Jedi. I also kinda feel they deserved what they got (although the rest of the galaxy didn't) when Order 66 came for using a slave army where the soldiers were disposable and created just to serve in that army.

Eroschilles wrote:
I was referring to the Star Wars Tales comic book where Boba and Darth Vader engage in a lightsaber duel with no clear victor. I was under the impression that most of the Tales comics were non-canon.


Vader and Boba Fett also fight in the comic Boba Fett: Enemy of the Empire. In that fight, Boba could have killed Darth Vader but chose not to as doing so would have earned him the wrath of the Empire.
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