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TheHutts wrote:But even despite the neutering of the 10 Mouse Droid dump, it's still a viable tactic, especially if your name rhymes with Grim Mallard. urbanjedi wrote:Yeah that Jim Kallard guy is pretty amazing and uses the 10 mouse dump really, really well.  Sincerely, I do love thinly veiled tongue-in-cheek references to me.  Here's the honest truth - I actually very rarely use the 10 mouse dump. Do I love Lobot? You bet your backside! He's probably the single best piece in the game! Do I love Gha Gnackt? Eh - I actually think he was poorly designed. Really silly such a minor character should have such a huge impact. But do I use Gha Gnackt frequently? I sure do - he's really good for what he does. OK - So I use Lobot + Gha Gnackt a lot . . . but I can probably count the number of times I have brought in a 10 mouse dump on my fingers. I certainly use Gha to gain the activation advantage - no doubt there. But in all hnoesty, what I bring in the most with Lobot is an MTB. Now maybe that's splitting hairs - a 10 mouse dump vs an MTB + 6 mice . . . but they do have quite different uses. With 6 mice and an MTB - sure the mice are extra activations, at first. But they are there soley to die by the hand of the MTB. That is 6 free rounds of MTB kills before you need to even think about killing something that is gonna give your opponent points (assuming you keep them safe.) With a 10 mouse dump - people will more commonly actually use the mice as high defense walls to literally block paths. I very very rarely have ever done this. When using an MTB, you can't risk loosing too many of those! So - joke all you want, just get it right! --->That Bim Tallard guy sure uses a 6 mouse + MTB dump quite a lot! 
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TheHutts wrote:Owen and Beru Lars, from Armed and Operational  Quote:10 points, Fringe
Hit Points: 30
Defense: 12
Attack: 1
Damage: 10
Special Abilities
Unique
Draw Fire (If an enemy targets an ally within 6 squares of this character, you may force that enemy to target this character instead if it can; save 11)
Heal 10 (Replaces attacks: touch; remove 10 damage from a living character)
Commander Effect
When this character is defeated, 1 ally whose name contains Luke gains Force Renewal 1 for the rest of the skirmish. There are some good Lukes out there who don't have force renewal. Rebel Commando, Commander Luke Skywalker, Luke's Snowspeeder, and Luke and Leia on Speeder could all benefit from some extra force points, and Owen and Beru Lars provide an alternate mechanism for Lukes to get some, rather than the usual Obi-Wan Kenobi Jedi Spirit. Since some of the Lukes listed above are relatively high speed, this piece can be a good alternative to Obi, as with Speed 2 he struggle to keep up with the Snowspeeder and Luke and Leia on Speeder. Owen and Beru don't do much outside of their Renewal CE - they're weak shooters, so heal 10 is probably their stronger option, and draw fire can provide some annoyance. With a switch to 10 point gambit, Owen and Beru might not be the worst gambit takers - if your opponent knocks them off, it means a Luke can get force renewal. I don't think Owen and Beru are as competitive an option as Obi-Wan Jedi Spirit - their CE does get cancelled by Bastila or Disruptive - but they can be an interesting choice for some squads. If nothing else, you can bring them in with Lobot if you feel that force renewal is a more useful option than other potential Lobot choices. I think that Owen and Beru have been sitting in the too hard basket for a while for the designers - they're one of the last speaking movie characters to get a mini, not surprising given their pacifist nature, but this is an elegant rendition. 7/10 (I really want a 6.5 for these guys - 7 seems a bit high, 6 seems a bit low). Fair assessment. 6.5 would be fine too. Once again we hit the mark we were aiming for here. Useful sometimes, not game breaking. In all honesty, I remember more than one person saying, "We could never makes characters like Owen and Beru or Shmi in the game. What on Earth would they do?" We took those types of comments as a challenge. It just took a little creativity, and patience to balance. I know at least 1 designer (not on that set) that came back to us and said, "You know - I was really looking down on the fact that you chose them for the set, but I gotta say you impressed me with the stats." Anyway - just another case of really feeling they needed to be represented in our game, and proving they can fill a role, without being over the top. Big props to Jason K for the initial idea, and Brad and Deri for having a big hand in helping shape it
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TimmerB123 wrote:So - joke all you want, just get it right! --->That Bim Tallard guy sure uses a 6 mouse + MTB dump quite a lot! OK - I've updated the original - I did forget about the 6 Mouse/MTB combo.
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TheHutts wrote:TimmerB123 wrote:So - joke all you want, just get it right! --->That Bim Tallard guy sure uses a 6 mouse + MTB dump quite a lot! OK - I've updated the original - I did forget about the 6 Mouse/MTB combo.
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Crix Madine, SpecForce Commander, from Galactic Heroes  Quote:23 points, Rebel
Hit Points: 50
Defense: 17
Attack: 7
Damage: 10
Special Abilities
Unique
Disruptive (Suppresses enemy commander effects within 6 squares)
Forward Positioning (Set up anywhere on your half of the battle map)
Gregarious (+4 Attack if an ally is within 6 squares)
Opportunist (+4 Attack and +10 Damage against an enemy who has activated this round)
Tactician +4 (Add +4 to the initiative roll except on a roll of 1)
Commander Effect
After setup, SpecForce allies can immediately move up to their speed. SpecForce allies gain Opportunist. I was actually surprised to see this piece's release, given that the WOTC Crix Madine is a great piece who still sees plenty of play with his Disruptive and Commando boosts. But it makes sense for the SpecForce to have their own commander Crix, and he brings plenty to the table for 23 points. Like the original Crix he has Disruptive, but he also has Forward Positioning, so he can gain gambit from round one, Tactician +4 for minor initiative control, while he's also a good shooter with Opportunist and Gregarious he can get up to shooting at +15 for 20. His commander effects allow SpecForce allies to move up to their speed after setup, and also hands out Opportunist to SpecForce allies. It's hard to get a feel for how good SpecForce squads are, as squads of mid-priced non-unique Rebels aren't the most sexy build out there, so they don't get a lot of play, but there's no reason why SpecForce Infiltrators with double/access to twin/cloaked/cunning/opportunist couldn't compete, while Wilderness Fighters with Leia Hoth Commander's CE and Charging Fire Marines are also good. Crix does add a lot of punch to SpecForce squads with opportunist, so I do think he's necessary when you are running SpecForce, it's just hard to gauge exactly how good SpecForce squads are right now. 7/10.
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Boba Fett, from Rebel Storm  Quote:50 points, Fringe
Hit Points: 110
Defense: 20
Attack: 12
Damage: 20
Special Abilities
Unique
Flight (Ignores difficult terrain, enemy characters, low objects, and pits when moving)
Accurate Shot (Can attack an enemy with cover even if it's not the nearest enemy)
Bounty Hunter +4 (+4 Attack against Unique enemies)
Double Attack (On his turn, this character can make 1 extra attack instead of moving) I'm sure original Boba Fett was the cats pyjamas in the Rebel Storm era, but he looks dated now - he's simply been outpowered by the other shooters in his price range. For only 4 points more, Cad Bane gains Greater Mobile, Twin Attack, Evade, and Stealth, although he loses Accurate in return, while the cheaper double/twin GMA turrets like Rex and Dash RS can put out far more damage at a cheaper cost. You can load Boba up with extra damage with some different CEs - Whorm can give him twin, as can the Mirta Gev/Mando Captain combo - but with no mobile to keep him safe, he's going to need to sit in the open to take his shots, and with no defensive abilities he's not going to last long. Having said that, Boba Fett is better than most other attack-oriented pieces from his era - a 110 hit point shooter with a high attack and accurate is nothing to sneeze at - but he's a long way from the pace of tournament play at this point. If you want to use a 50 point Boba Fett in a competitive game, the latest v-set has a version that's tournament ready right out of the box, Rebel Storm Boba Fett is just for the collection, 4/10.
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TheHutts wrote:Boba Fett, from Rebel Storm Quote:50 points, Fringe
Hit Points: 110
Defense: 20
Attack: 12
Damage: 20
Special Abilities
Unique
Flight (Ignores difficult terrain, enemy characters, low objects, and pits when moving)
Accurate Shot (Can attack an enemy with cover even if it's not the nearest enemy)
Bounty Hunter +4 (+4 Attack against Unique enemies)
Double Attack (On his turn, this character can make 1 extra attack instead of moving) I'm sure original Boba Fett was the cats pyjamas in the Rebel Storm era, but he looks dated now - he's simply been outpowered by the other shooters in his price range. For only 4 points more, Cad Bane gains Greater Mobile, Twin Attack, Evade, and Stealth, although he loses Accurate in return, while the cheaper double/twin GMA turrets like Rex and Dash RS can put out far more damage at a cheaper cost. You can load Boba up with extra damage with some different CEs - Whorm can give him twin, as can the Mirta Gev/Mando Captain combo - but with no mobile to keep him safe, he's going to need to sit in the open to take his shots, and with no defensive abilities he's not going to last long. Having said that, Boba Fett is better than most other attack-oriented pieces from his era - a 110 hit point shooter with a high attack and accurate is nothing to sneeze at - but he's a long way from the pace of tournament play at this point. If you want to use a 50 point Boba Fett in a competitive game, the latest v-set has a version that's tournament ready right out of the box, Rebel Storm Boba Fett is just for the collection, 4/10. That's a pretty generous rating considering that assassin for hire is the same cost and is basically better in every way.
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TheHutts wrote:Boba Fett, from Rebel Storm Yes - he was the MAN back in the day. Also one of the best sculpts EVER! Also the original chase figure. I remember when he would sell for $50-$75 I have 3. One of which is still "unopened" in a booster. I always had a dream of giving it to some kid and watching him (or her) lose their mind when they opened it. Problem is that now nobody would lose their mind.
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I don't know about that Tim. I don't own any bobas of any kind and would prob. be pretty geeked if I were given one as none of them are cheap, and as you stated, this one is the sculpt to own in my opinion.
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gholli69 wrote:I don't know about that Tim. I don't own any bobas of any kind and would prob. be pretty geeked if I were given one as none of them are cheap, and as you stated, this one is the sculpt to own in my opinion. Get's a lot of credit for his pose, but i've always thought the fire looked a little lame. The Jango that came out in Bounty hunters with the transparent flames looks much cooler imho
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Darth Sion, from Knights of the Old Republic  Quote:69 points, Sith
Hit Points: 110
Defense: 17
Attack: 11
Damage: 20
Special Abilities
Unique
Melee Attack (Can attack only adjacent enemies)
Double Attack (On his turn, this character can make 1 extra attack instead of moving)
Lightsaber Duelist (+4 Defense when attacked by an adjacent enemy with a Force rating)
Force Powers
Force 5
Eternal Hatred (Force 2: Whenever this character would be defeated, make a save of 6; on a success, this character is restored to full Hit Points instead of being defeated)
Lightsaber Riposte (Force 1: When hit by a melee attack, this character can make an immediate attack against that attacker)
Sith Rage (Force 1: +10 Damage on all attacks this turn) Eternal Hatred is obviously Darth Sion's signature ability - if it works it's great, if it doesn't, he's a terrible piece for the cost, with awful stats and hit points, and little else of interest. I think we have to be clear from the start that Darth Sion is a casual piece. And he's a terrific casual piece - you can support him with Force Renewal and Sith Recruits for rerolls, and with a bit of luck, he's virtually an infinite hit point behemoth. But as a competitive piece, he's a very risky 69 points of your squad - there are a lot of competitively popular pieces that will negate his Eternal Hatred and make Sion just about the worst 69 points in the game; Talon Karrde IB and Admiral Pellaeon with Ysalamari, Mace LotLS and any other pieces with Force Absorb/Renewal, Exar Kun Force Spirit's Dark Aura will all wipe the floor with him. Great casual piece, terrible competitive piece - maybe that makes him a 4/10?
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adamb0nd wrote:gholli69 wrote:I don't know about that Tim. I don't own any bobas of any kind and would prob. be pretty geeked if I were given one as none of them are cheap, and as you stated, this one is the sculpt to own in my opinion. Get's a lot of credit for his pose, but i've always thought the fire looked a little lame. The Jango that came out in Bounty hunters with the transparent flames looks much cooler imho +1
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TimmerB123 wrote:TheHutts wrote:Boba Fett, from Rebel Storm Yes - he was the MAN back in the day. Also one of the best sculpts EVER! Also the original chase figure. I remember when he would sell for $50-$75 I have 3. One of which is still "unopened" in a booster. I always had a dream of giving it to some kid and watching him (or her) lose their mind when they opened it. Problem is that now nobody would lose their mind. I still would! Lol
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Yuuzhan Vong Droid Hunter, from Vengeance  Quote:29 points, Yuuzhan Vong
Hit Points: 70
Defense: 17
Attack: 11
Damage: 10
Special Abilities
Melee Attack (Can attack only adjacent enemies)
Twin Attack (Whenever this character attacks, it makes 1 extra attack against the same target)
Droid Hunter (+4 Attack and +10 Damage against Droid enemies)
Force Immunity (Enemies cannot affect this character with Force powers, or spend Force points to reroll attacks against this character or to respond to this character's attacks and abilities)
Magma Pebble (Replaces attacks: range 6; 20 damage, and target is burning. Each time a burning character activates, it must attempt a save of 11. On a failure, that character takes 20 damage. On a success, that character is no longer burning. Magma Pebbles stack and the burning character must make a save for each instance.)
Mobile Attack (Can move both before and after attacking)
Razorbug (Replaces attacks: sight; 10 damage; save 11)
Vonduun Crab Armor 6 (When this character takes damage, it can reduce the damage dealt by 10 with a save of 6) I've never seen a Vong Droid Hunter in action, which is probably not a good sign, since it's from Vengeance, but at face value it does seem overcosted for what it does. An obvious comparison is the Vong Jedi Hunter - for an extra 9 points, the Droid Hunter gets marginally better attack and defense stats, Droid Hunter instead of Jedi Hunter, mobile attack (only marginally useful on a melee piece), and a direct damage option in Magma Pebble. So it seems overcosted compared to the Jedi Hunter, but even more tellingly, there's no way to bring a 29 point piece in from reinforcements or reserves, and it seems risky to mainline it when it's only really a worthwhile option if you know your opponent is running droids. Magma Pebble is neat, as it stacks with itself, unlike most similar abilities, but it's expensive to use a 29 point piece for it - it'd be nice to see it on a cheaper piece. Really, it's hard to justify running the Droid Hunter, unless you're in a extremely droid heavy meta - I'd take the less sturdy Yum-Yammka Fanatic over it any day - with Charging Assault +10, it's much better at getting into the action, and at 19 points it can come in to a squad via Quorreal's Reinforcements. 4/10.
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harryg wrote:That's a pretty generous rating considering that assassin for hire is the same cost and is basically better in every way. Yeah, but he looks pretty decent against the truly terrible pieces in the game - like Klat Enforcers et al.
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Ithorian Commander, from Alliance and Empire  Quote:11 points, Rebel
Hit Points: 30
Defense: 12
Attack: 6
Damage: 20
Special Abilities
Melee Attack (Can attack only adjacent enemies)
Commander Effect
Followers in your squad with Damage 10 and Melee Attack get +4 Attack and +10 Damage. The Ithorian Commander is a great cheap commander for the Rebels - in tandem with Han in Stormtrooper Armor from the same set, he helps create the infrastructure for Rebel swarm squads. With his commander effect, cheap melee damage 10 pieces are charging 12 squares and hitting with a +4 attack and +10 damage - among some of the premier options, Rodian Brutes are suddenly +8 for 20, Zygerrian Slavers are an unblockable +10 for 20, and Jarael's tripling at +14s. Additionally, as a Rebel non-unique, they can come into the New Republic via Garm Bel Iblis, where they can buff Yuuzhan Vong Ossus Guardians into stronger attackers - this build went 3-3 at GenCon 2010 and won UrbanShmi an award for most creative squad: Quote:45 Garm Bel Iblis
78 Yuuzhan Vong Ossus Guardian x3
28 Dash Rendar, Renegade Smuggler
23 Jarael
10 Jagged Fel
9 General Dodonna
6 Ugnaught Demolitionist x2
New Republic/Fringe Reinforcements:
11 Ithorian Commander
17 Bothan Noble (most often) A lot of the Ithorian Commander squads, built around cheap melee pieces, can be vulnerable to the Lancer and Yobuck. Nonetheless, the Ithorian Commander is still a very strong commander for only 11 points, creating some interesting changeup builds for the Rebels - while it's been overlooked, and I haven't seen it on the table recently, it's still really strong for the cost. 8/10.
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The Ithorian Commander was a real MVP for me that year in at least one game, coming up at the end and critting to kill Cad Bane, who otherwise would probably have taken out the rest of my squad. Of course, that's a pretty unusual situation, but the 20 base damage is nothing to sneeze at either, in the right scenario.
Of course, now there are plenty of ways to boost the damage of melee attackers, but in the WotC era, this guy certainly made for some fun options.
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TheHutts wrote:Ithorian Commander, from Alliance and Empire
9/10. Too high of a rating friend. Maybe when he first came out he was a 9. Scissor squads aside, disruptive was very rare then. Then once disruptive became much more popular (just a few sets later), it pretty much crunched these squads. Because they have to be Melee, there is no way to stay outside the disruptive bubble and attack anything within it. And now with even more disruptive, along with distraction and ABM . . . It's pretty well dead in the water. I'd say 6/10. Maybe 7
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TimmerB123 wrote:TheHutts wrote:Ithorian Commander, from Alliance and Empire
9/10. Too high of a rating friend. Maybe when he first came out he was a 9. Scissor squads aside, disruptive was very rare then. Then once disruptive became much more popular (just a few sets later), it pretty much crunched these squads. Because they have to be Melee, there is no way to stay outside the disruptive bubble and attack anything within it. And now with even more disruptive, along with distraction and ABM . . . It's pretty well dead in the water. I'd say 6/10. Maybe 7 I must concur, melee swarms that relies on commander effects just don't stand a chance against Disruptive or even Distraction, much less ABM. I think 6 is a fair rating. Now if he was fringe he would be slightly better imo
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TheHutts wrote:Darth Sion, from Knights of the Old Republic Quote:69 points, Sith
Hit Points: 110
Defense: 17
Attack: 11
Damage: 20
Special Abilities
Unique
Melee Attack (Can attack only adjacent enemies)
Double Attack (On his turn, this character can make 1 extra attack instead of moving)
Lightsaber Duelist (+4 Defense when attacked by an adjacent enemy with a Force rating)
Force Powers
Force 5
Eternal Hatred (Force 2: Whenever this character would be defeated, make a save of 6; on a success, this character is restored to full Hit Points instead of being defeated)
Lightsaber Riposte (Force 1: When hit by a melee attack, this character can make an immediate attack against that attacker)
Sith Rage (Force 1: +10 Damage on all attacks this turn) Eternal Hatred is obviously Darth Sion's signature ability - if it works it's great, if it doesn't, he's a terrible piece for the cost, with awful stats and hit points, and little else of interest. I think we have to be clear from the start that Darth Sion is a casual piece. And he's a terrific casual piece - you can support him with Force Renewal and Sith Recruits for rerolls, and with a bit of luck, he's virtually an infinite hit point behemoth. But as a competitive piece, he's a very risky 69 points of your squad - there are a lot of competitively popular pieces that will negate his Eternal Hatred and make Sion just about the worst 69 points in the game; Talon Karrde IB and Admiral Pellaeon with Ysalamari, Mace LotLS and any other pieces with Force Absorb/Renewal, Exar Kun Force Spirit's Dark Aura will all wipe the floor with him. Great casual piece, terrible competitive piece - maybe that makes him a 4/10? Wow no way, this guy is legendary. With marko this guy can actually somewhat work around the force cancel/absorb since he can eternal hatred again if someone tries to stop him. As well with either the Watto/Celeste combo or even just malak and bandon this guy can be a staple of some very fun almost competitive squads. Plus in this day of swarm/strafers force absorb isn't too common I find. And some games with Marko and Pawns I have brought this guy back three to six times. I would give him at least a 7 or 8 with the support available to jack him up. Now the new Sion on the other hand... Meh this guy's blatant force points abuse is legendary
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