|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 5/21/2009
Posts: 171
|
And yet I still see people build Vong squads without Quorreal. The first thing I comment on those squads when I see one is "Make room for Quorreal, He is that good."
|
|
Rank: Moderator
Groups: Member
, Moderator
Joined: 5/26/2009
Posts: 8,408
|
I think this latest set (Dooje and the saves-boost priest) pushed Quorreal from a 10 to an 11.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 5/21/2009
Posts: 171
|
FlyingArrow wrote:I think this latest set (Dooje and the saves-boost priest) pushed Quorreal from a 10 to an 11. With a cost of 9 and Diplomat, Dooje is cheap enough to put in the base squad. It feels weird to bring him in via Quorreal for 1 point difference when he won't benefit from AN.
|
|
Rank: Moderator
Groups: Member
, Moderator
Joined: 5/26/2009
Posts: 8,408
|
Amphistaff is very situational. You don't need it every game so it makes sense to use it with reinforcements.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 1/2/2012
Posts: 746
|
Dooje also benefits from Vong CEs, so he can benefit from stuff like Shaper +10 (not very useful) and Spit Poison 20 (more useful).
Personally, I think that if he were one point more, he'd be an auto-include, if only for gambit.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 5/21/2009
Posts: 171
|
I would say Amphistaff would come in handy most games. There always seems to be someone that blows up or has ways of avoiding death. Even in the matchup where it isnt all that useful, a diplomat with distraction is always useful. I think I would pretty much always use him in a melee Vong squad.
|
|
Rank: Moderator
Groups: Member
, Moderator
Joined: 1/30/2009
Posts: 6,457
Location: Southern Illinois
|
SignerJ wrote:Dooje also benefits from Vong CEs, so he can benefit from stuff like Shaper +10 (not very useful) and Spit Poison 20 (more useful).
Personally, I think that if he were one point more, he'd be an auto-include, if only for gambit. Gambit qualifiers are certainly something to consider when choosing your Reinforcements. Good post. 
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 5/21/2009
Posts: 171
|
swinefeld wrote:SignerJ wrote:Dooje also benefits from Vong CEs, so he can benefit from stuff like Shaper +10 (not very useful) and Spit Poison 20 (more useful).
Personally, I think that if he were one point more, he'd be an auto-include, if only for gambit. Gambit qualifiers are certainly something to consider when choosing your Reinforcements. Good post. Except reinforcements don't gain gambit.  
|
|
Rank: Moderator
Groups: Member
, Moderator
Joined: 1/30/2009
Posts: 6,457
Location: Southern Illinois
|
Sthlrd2 wrote:swinefeld wrote:SignerJ wrote:Dooje also benefits from Vong CEs, so he can benefit from stuff like Shaper +10 (not very useful) and Spit Poison 20 (more useful).
Personally, I think that if he were one point more, he'd be an auto-include, if only for gambit. Gambit qualifiers are certainly something to consider when choosing your Reinforcements. Good post. Except reinforcements don't gain gambit. I am quite aware of that, thank you.  Another reason to bring him in - he can't score Gambit in the base squad anyway. 
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 6/23/2010
Posts: 3,561
Location: The Hutt, New Zealand
|
Old Republic Jedi Knight, from Jedi vs. Sith  Quote:18 points, Old Republic
Hit Points: 40
Defense: 17
Attack: 7
Damage: 20
Special Abilities
Melee Attack (Can attack only adjacent enemies)
Squad Cover (+4 Defense while 3 allies with the same name as this character are within 6 squares)
Synergy +2 (+2 Attack while an allied Old Republic Jedi Knight is within 6 squares)
Force Powers
Force 2
Lightsaber Assault (Force 1, replaces attacks: Make 2 attacks)
Lightsaber Deflect (Force 1: When hit by a nonmelee attack, this character takes no damage with a save of 11) It's difficult to get enthused about the Old Republic Jedi Knight - he feels very Old Republic-ish with his staunch defense, low attack rating, and lack of attacking prowess. With Squad Cover he can get up to a 25 defense in cover - along with Lightsaber Deflect, he has strong ranged defenses. What's not impressive, however, is the 40 hit points - at his cost, he arguably needs 50 hit points to be playable. His abilities of Squad Cover and synergy point to playing multiple Old Republic Jedi Knights in the same squad, but they're not really strong enough to justify that. I'd much rather play a Covenant Executor or Mirialan Jedi Knight in the same price range - the Old Republic Jedi Knight seems overpriced and bland in comparison. 3/10.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 1/2/2012
Posts: 746
|
swinefeld wrote:SignerJ wrote:Dooje also benefits from Vong CEs, so he can benefit from stuff like Shaper +10 (not very useful) and Spit Poison 20 (more useful).
Personally, I think that if he were one point more, he'd be an auto-include, if only for gambit. Gambit qualifiers are certainly something to consider when choosing your Reinforcements. Good post. I usually use Quorreal's Reinforcements for 5 Zekot Scouts, so I was talking about including Dooje in the base squad. Probably should have clarified that. 
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 6/23/2010
Posts: 3,561
Location: The Hutt, New Zealand
|
Mako, from The Old Republic  Quote:34 points, Fringe
Hit Points: 70
Defense: 18
Attack: 8
Damage: 20
Special Abilities
Unique
Double Attack (On her turn, this character can make 1 extra attack instead of moving)
Bounty Hunter +2 (+2 Attack against Unique enemies)
Combat Medic (When this character is within 6 squares of an enemy character, add +10 to the amount of damage removed from target character when this character uses an ability that removes damage from an ally)
Jolt (An enemy hit by this character's attack is considered activated this round; save 11. Huge and larger characters ignore this effect.)
Medical Pack (Replaces attacks: range 6; remove 10 damage from target living ally and from each living ally within 2 squares of the target)
Medical Scan (Usable once per round on this character’s turn; range 12; remove 10 damage from a living ally) thereisnotry basically covered Mako a couple of weeks ago on this thread, so I'll just repost what he said: Quote:It's very true that healing is almost never a useful tactic. The only piece that has ever really been competitive in that role has been Dr. Evazan, but a big part of his usefulness is his auto-30 dmg. We tried to address the healing mechanic when I worked on the micro-set in V-Set 5. This was my post on the topic:
Quote:
The major problem with healing so far has been that...
1. it requires the healer to be adjacent to the target, which is especially significant because of #2:
2. most of the healers (certainly the cheaper ones) are very fragile, which means that they die pretty quickly
3. the amount of healing has generally been quite low (10/20 dmg) or else very expensive (4 fp for Heal 40 on Cade BH)...in either case, it hasn't been worthwhile, especially considering #4:
4. the healers really can't do anything but heal (since all healing replaces attacks), and so you're dropping an attacker for a healer or else not attacking with a main piece because you're healing instead.
But what if healing did not replace attacks, but was instead a "usable once-per-turn on this character's turn" kind of ability, and did not require adjacency? That would allow the healer to be a semi-decent attacker while still being able to play their healing role. Also, if the healing required Range 6 and LOS rather than adjacency, it could actually be useful.
As a result, we came up with these abilities for Mako:
Medical Scan (Usable once per round on this character’s turn; range 12; remove 10 damage from a living ally)
Combat Medic (When this character is within 6 squares of an enemy character, add +10 to the amount of damage removed from target character when this character uses an ability that removes damage from an ally)
Medical Scan is a good ability, but it's not seen much because it's on an overcosted piece. Combat Medic makes it worthwhile for her to get into the thick of the action, rather than sitting way in the back filing paperwork.
So, even if Mako herself is not competitive, I do think that her healing mechanic is. My opinion is that free and ranged healing is the way to go for a competitive healer. I'd agree with this - neat healing mechanics, but too expensive to be a competitive piece. Her best faction is maybe Fringe, where she can use Talon Karrde's CE to get into position, and then get a couple of Ysalamari shots at jolting a big piece. But she's unlikely to get to heal much after making her attacks, and the Fringe have better options. She's a nice, well thought out piece, but she's not competitive. 5/10.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 6/23/2010
Posts: 3,561
Location: The Hutt, New Zealand
|
Wookiee Thug, from Renegades and Rogues  Quote:23 points, Fringe
Hit Points: 70
Defense: 14
Attack: 8
Damage: 20
Special Abilities
Melee Attack (Can attack only adjacent enemies)
Double Attack (On his turn, this character can make 1 extra attack instead of moving)
Backlash (This character can move and then make all of its attacks against 1 enemy who has already activated this round)
Charging Assault +10 (Replaces turn: Can move up to double speed, then make an attack at +10 Damage against an adjacent enemy)
Cleave (Once per turn, if this character defeats an adjacent enemy by making an attack, he can make 1 immediate attack against another adjacent enemy)
Momentum (If this character has moved this turn, he gets +4 Attack and +10 Damage against adjacent enemies) Like the Old Republic Knight from yesterday epitomised the Old Republic - unglamorous and lots of defense - the Wookiee Thug is a great encapsulation of Wookieedom. He's all furry aggression, with versatile attacking options - Backlash with Double, Charging Assault, and Cleave make him an interesting threat, and Momentum helps with all of them. But he's almost defenceless, with 70 hit points and 14 defense representing a very squishy melee piece for 23 points. But his attacking prowess makes him an interesting prospect, especially in factions where he can gain an attack and damage boost - he's probably best with Thrawn's Opportunist in Imperials or Talon Kardde's boardwide attack and damage boost in Fringe. The Thug saw Top 8 success in GenCon this year with Darth_Jim's Fringe build with Talon Karrde Information Broker, Embo, and Morrigan Corrde. The Wookiee Thug is an intimidating attacker - with its speed and damage output, it's certainly a competitive option, 9/10.
|
|
Rank: Moderator
Groups: Member
, Moderator
Joined: 8/9/2009
Posts: 1,935
|
nevermind you fixed it I've always liked the Thug and he fit really well in Jim's build
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 4/23/2008
Posts: 906
Location: Central Pa
|
I've used him twice in squads I've taken to GenCon...in my Talon Karrde build, and a Thrawn swap Cad/wookiee/wookiee build. Because of his defense and hit points, in my opinion he's best used as a trade piece. You pick your spot with him and take something/things down knowing that the return fire will kill him. Cleave with momentum is awesome.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 6/23/2010
Posts: 3,561
Location: The Hutt, New Zealand
|
Gungan Elite Infantry, from Galactic Heroes  Quote:19 points, Republic
Hit Points: 60
Defense: 15
Attack: 6
Damage: 20
Special Abilities
Melee Attack (Can attack only adjacent enemies)
Atlatl 30 (Replaces attacks, range 6: 30 Damage to target and to each character adjacent to target, save 11. A non-living character that takes damage from this effect is considered activated this round, save 11 negates. Huge and larger characters ignore the nondamaging effect.)
Bodyguard (If an adjacent ally would take damage from an attack, this character can take the damage instead)
Bombad Protector (This character and adjacent allied Gungans get a +4 bonus to save rolls triggered when hit by an attack or special ability) The 11 point Gungan Artillerists and their rangeless Cesta 20s are so effective that the Gungan Elite Infantry will never supplant them as the primary attacking force in a Gungan build. While their extra hit points are great, the limit of range 6 on Atatl is too much of a limitation. They do, however, add some other interesting things to a Gungan squad; Bodyguard is always helpful, and Bombad Protector is very useful at keeping Gungan Artillerists alive when enemies get adjacent and they have to make their saves for their own Cestas. There are enough options in Tarpals squads that the Gungan Elite Infantry is far from essential, but it's certainly worth considering, 6/10.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 6/23/2010
Posts: 3,561
Location: The Hutt, New Zealand
|
Oppo Rancisis, from Armed and Operational  Quote:56 points, Republic
Hit Points: 120
Defense: 22
Attack: 14
Damage: 20
Special Abilities
Unique
Melee Attack (Can attack only adjacent enemies)
Triple Attack (On his turn, this character can make 2 extra attacks instead of moving)
Tactician +4 (Add +4 to the initiative roll except on a roll of 1)
Force Powers
Force 2
Force Renewal 1 (This character gets 1 Force point each time he activates)
Master of the Force 2 (May spend Force points up to 2 times in a single turn)
Advanced Malacia (Force 2, usable on this character's turn: Until the start of his next turn this character gains the following Force Ability: Each time a living enemy moves adjacent to this character it takes 20 damage and it ends its turn; save 16.)
Force Cloak (Force 2, replaces turn: For the rest of the skirmish, this character gains Cloaked)
Force Meditation (Force 1, replaces turn: For the rest of the round, this character gains the following Force ability: Allied characters get +4 Attack and enemy characters get -4 Attack)
Lightsaber Block (Force 1: When hit by a melee attack, this character takes no damage with a save of 11) Oppo Rancisis is a unique piece; the Force Cloak/Advanced Malacia combo is potentially very powerful in some matchups, especially against cheap swarm pieces, in the era of 10 point gambit. But this comes with definite limitations - Large Base slows him down, and without access to movement breakers he's unlikely to reach gambit in the first round on most maps. He's also unlikely to have enough force points to Cloak and then use Advanced Malacia every round. As well as Cloak and Malacia, Oppo also has Force Meditation, which might actually make him an interesting option in Epics, but the GOWK/Oppo combo for massive stat boosts is probably too expensive at 200 points, since it's more than half of your squad - it's easier to go with the cheaper Atris. Oppo Rancisis does have some interesting possibilities, but his high cost combined with his large base means that the Republic have better Jedi in his price range. 6/10.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 6/23/2010
Posts: 3,561
Location: The Hutt, New Zealand
|
Master Kavar, from Renegades and Rogues  Quote:65 points, Old Republic
Hit Points: 130
Defense: 20
Attack: 11
Damage: 20
Special Abilities
Unique
Melee Attack (Can attack only adjacent enemies)
Twin Attack (Whenever this character attacks, he makes 1 extra attack against the same target)
Niman Style Mastery (+4 Attack and +4 Defense while this character has more than half Hit Points remaining)
Force Powers
Force 2
Force Renewal 1 (This character gets 1 Force point each time he activates)
Master of the Force 2 (May spend Force points up to 2 times in a single turn)
Force Heal 20 (Force 2, replaces attacks: touch; remove 20 damage from a living character)
Jedi Mind Trick 3 (Force 3, usable only on this character's turn: range 6; target living enemy and each living enemy adjacent to that target are considered activated this round and cannot make attacks of opportunity this turn; save 16)
Lightsaber Defense (Force 1: When hit by an attack, this character takes no damage with a save of 11)
Sever Force (Force 3: replaces turn; Target adjacent character cannot spend Force points for the rest of the skirmish)
Commander Effect
Followers within 6 squares get +3 Attack and +3 Defense. An attack boost for the Old Republic is big news, since they have notorious low attack ratings, and Master Kavar was a popular piece on release. With Twin, he can do his damage on the move, and he also has a couple of spoiler tricks with Sever Force and Jedi Mind Trick 3. He's a tank with 130 hit points, Lightsaber Defense, and Niman Style Mastery - he's a whopping 28 defense in cover before he gets down to half hit points. Kavar won the Owensboro Regional with greentime's help in 2012: Quote:--OR Jank--
65 Master Kavar
36 Atton "Jaq" Rand
33 Bastila Shan, Jedi Master
29 Carth Onasi, Old Republic Soldier
14 Old Republic Senator
8 R7 Astromech Droid
9 Mouse Droid x3
6 Ugnaught Demolitionist x2
(200pts. 11 activations)
Well, this squad won the 2012 Owensboro regional. After playing it exclusively for about a month, it's something like 20-1, and I still don't really understand why. Since then, Master Kavar's stock has gone down somewhat - largely because of the emergence of Satele Shan as an uber melee piece at 37 points. Because she's so much cheaper, it means that OR Pilot builds can afford to run a Klat Captain and Lobot. Master Kavar's still a tough piece, and even at 65 points he's a good deal, but he's not the go-to-guy for the Old Republic anymore, 8/10.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 6/23/2010
Posts: 3,561
Location: The Hutt, New Zealand
|
Elan, from Scum and Villainy  Quote:23 points, Yuuzhan Vong
Hit Points: 70
Defense: 17
Attack: 10
Damage: 10
Special Abilities
Unique
Melee Attack (Can attack only adjacent enemies)
Bo'tous Spore (Replaces attacks: range 6; 40 damage to target and to each character adjacent to that target; save 11 to reduce the damage to 20. Characters that have not yet activated this round can replace their turn to ignore this ability.)
Force Immunity (Enemies cannot affect this character with Force powers, or spend Force points to reroll attacks against this character or to respond to this character's attacks and abilities)
Stealth (If this character has cover, she does not count as the nearest enemy for an attacker farther than 6 squares when choosing targets) Stealth mean you probably want to run her with Nom Anor, but I think Elan is too expensive to justify a place in front of the stronger Vong Stealth options like Peace Brigade Soldiers or 4 point Workers with Spit Poison. The catch-22 of an activation or unblockable auto-damage from Bo'tous Spore is nice, but 23 points seems a bit much for a character who is unlikely to get to use it more than once - she's squishy enough that she probably won't last long once she's in the action. Bo'tous Spore could get nasty against an unaware opponent with clustered figures, or if the Yammosk stole Tarpals CE, but I think she's just a few points too expensive, or a bit too squishy to make the top tables. 5/10.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 6/23/2010
Posts: 3,561
Location: The Hutt, New Zealand
|
Gloom Walker Sniper, from Armed and Operational  Quote:18 points, Sith
Hit Points: 50
Defense: 17
Attack: 9
Damage: 20
Special Abilities
Trooper (Counts as a character named Sith Trooper)
Careful Shot +4 (On this character's turn, if he doesn't move, he gets +4 Attack)
Deadeye (On this character's turn, if he doesn't move, he gets +10 Damage)
Sniper (Other characters do not provide cover against this character's attack)
Stealth (If this character has cover, he does not count as the nearest enemy for an attacker farther than 6 squares when choosing targets)
Verpine Shatter Rifle (Replaces turn: Choose 1 enemy within line of sight, ignoring cover. Make an attack against that enemy.) The Sith aren't exactly endowed with great shooters, so the Gloom Walker Sniper is one of their better options. I've played against them used with Caedus and GARY, and they're dangerous - with Cunning from GARY they're at +17 for 40s when they don't move, with pseudo-Accurate Shot from Verpine Shatter Rifle. If they don't move, they can instead utilise Double Attack from a Sith Trooper Captain, and they can also pick up the Stealth/GMA combo from the Black Sun Vigos if you're feeling that way inclined. With 50 hit points, Stealth, and 17 defense, they're plenty robust for an 18 point shooter as well. All in all, they're a great little package - nothing too glamorous, but a very solid non-unique shooter for the Sith. 8/10.
|
|
|
Guest |