For the record, I don't even know if it's a problem. I played a couple times with them and I don't think I ever saw the blast bugs lose, but we moved on to other things. They haven't dominated tournaments, so maybe nothing needs to be done? I dunno. No objections to the idea - just not sure.

I generally favor simply re-costing things. It's usually the easiest solution because still work just like they did before.

Not in favor. I think they should have been worth points from the beginning, but I think we may have too many changes already. All changes should be to fix game-breaking or major NPE reasons. If the game goes to a full win, it shouldn't matter anyway. Everything dies.

On that note, though, I would favor changing the end-game trigger for games that end before time expires. Instead of playing to the build total (kills+gambit), play to the build total (counting kills only). In other words, you play until one side kills the other. If that doesn't happen in time, only then do you look at gambit points. I haven't actually encountered this, but with 10-pt gambit I could see a situation where one side has 60 points of gambit and 140 points of kills... and wins with 20 minutes left in the hour. But the next round, the loser's untouched 60pt Beat Stick was about to take the last 10 hp off the winner's last piece. The loser loses because he didn't have enough gambit even though he was going to wipe out the other player's whole squad, and do so in plenty of time. I've never seen that happen, but with 10-pt gambit it's quite possible. And that shouldn't happen. First rule of winning should be wiping out the other squad within the time limit if you can. If nobody does, then count gambit. (And award a full win if you reach the build total with gambit... but only count it after the game is over.)

[edits: clarified some wording]

I'd like to suggest the Yun Ne'Shel priest's cost be increased. Right now ever squad I make for Vong starts at 24pts because the combo of the Yun Ne'Sel Priest and a Ossus Guardian is too good imho. Giving Avoid Defeat to a 40 HP bodyguard that can also reduce dmg by 10 with VCA with a save of a 7, and then when it does eventually die just needs 2 7's with Avoid Defeat in order to change the balance of the game dramitically. I've played several games where the Ossus Guardian just doesn't die until the 3rd time it absorbs a hit, making it the best BG in the game when the Yun Priest gives it Avoid Defeat and the +4 to saves.

Maybe if the Yun Ne'Shel Priests cost was increased to 21 it'd be fine cause then you can't bring it in via Quorreal and it still dramitically helps the squad, just for 8pts more. Ithink right now the combo costs to little and its a problem i think.

Joe’s squad is superior to the Praetorite Blast Bug squads I played in early 2014. I gave up trying to fit Blast Bug into my Lah warrior squads. Like TJ I moved on because vong weren't exactly dominating the environment. But Joe has perfected his squad into a near auto-loss for Rock squads. Counters are hard to come by and I don't think Marn is the answer in every squad.

The difference is for +1 cost with 10pt Domain Lah Warriors instead of 9pt Praetorite Vong Scouts you get; +30 hitpoints, +4 defense, +5 attack, Twin, Speed 8, and VCA 11. You have 17 activations and go 1 at a time. You outactivate and run 8 warriors 8 sq. and Blast Bug 6 sq. away (range 14) doing (160 unpreventable damage). The 40hp Lah warriors with crab armor "7" are not easy to kill. Lah warriors have durability to stick around and Blast Bug you more. Lah warriors can also run up and twin for 40 damage or base and double twin for 80 damage.

Our game at Frosty lasted maybe 4 rounds and was like 200 some points to 30pts.
I think I killed 3 warriors. Darth Zhanna and Darth Cognus died rounds 2 and 3.
The game was over quickly without either player hardly rolling a die.

Etienne's game lasted 3 rounds 200pts to 0pts.
He was unable to kill anything before 100pt Dooku and crew died rounds 1 and 2.
He said it was the biggest blow out he’s ever experienced in SWM.

Domain Lah Warriors with Blast Bug is clearly an NPE. Joe suggested Lah warriors cost be raised to 15.
I tend to agree with him that a simple cost change would help.

I, personally would like to see more evidence that they are a problem. If the balance committee had listened after frosty last year, the Republic Commandos would have gotten the hammer, and I don't think they are a problem.

Let the meta sort itself out a bit.

I beat Joe very soundly twice and I was running a very ROCK squad and it was a suboptimal build at that.

Yes, Blast bugs (or unpreventable damage) is very good against rock. So is force lightning and flamethrower and many other abilities.

Look at the meta of frosty. Joe called it perfectly: ALL ROCK. No Durge on speeder, no Swap, no outact and smash, no grevious on wheelbike. None of the Vong's natural counters were present. I would expect his squad to do well.

Now, it is certainly something the balance committee should keep an eye on but I certainly don't think they should make a knee-jerk reaction.

I didn't get to watch Jim's game which I would have liked to, but it seems that disruptive SHOULD be pretty good against them. They have to get to range 6 (or at least in Joe's build they do).

If memory serves, the only regionals Vong have won, were one out West in the early years, Tim with Jake's spit poison squad and Jake beating me in a Vong on Vong final in Chicago with Jake with spit poison and peace brigade and myself with the Preaterite blast buggers and peace brigade.

And no, I certainly don't think a squad or piece has to be winning (or dominating) to get looked at (ie see Panaka of Theed) but at the same time, the current combination is pretty new and I personally don't know if the meta has had a chance to respond. With Daala the meta had multiple chances to respond. Same with most of the other stuff that the balance committee actually changed.

how about we get rid of the Vong all together? hmmm
let's run that up the flag pole, and see who salutes it!

Aves almost was enough, he forced my commander to come out and eventually get killed, too late for Jim, but he did get the Subcommander.

I think they are meant to be more like flamethrower except it's focused on only one person while flamethrower hits groups. In that sense it's balanced

Clone Trooper with Flamethrower 11pts
HP 20
DF 14
Att 0
Dam 10
Order 66
Burning Attacks
Flamethrower 20

Domain Lah Warrior 10pts
HP 40 (w/ Crab Armor)
DF 15 (gets Evade "7")
Att +6 (+10atk w/ Zenoc Quah)
Dam 10 (+10 with Shaper)
Melee Attack
Twin
Force Immunity
Speed 8
Crab Armor "7"
YV Warrior
(Mobile with Blast Bug)

Flamethrower 20 is not a good comparison.
10pt Domain Lah Warriors with Blast Bug is not balanced.

+1