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GOWK, the answer. Options
Uggie Demo
Posted: Friday, June 26, 2009 6:21:54 PM
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Sorry to make you upset dean, and I didn't know that Rob dosen't pay attention to the game, again I agree with IG, I think that something could be done with GOWK then banning him maybe taking away mettle? or changing soresu style mastery?
dnemiller
Posted: Friday, June 26, 2009 6:52:04 PM
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Location: GC, Missouri
Uggie Demo wrote:
Sorry to make you upset dean, and I didn't know that Rob dosen't pay attention to the game, again I agree with IG, I think that something could be done with GOWK then banning him maybe taking away mettle? or changing soresu style mastery?


I am not upset. I am just tired of people wording things in a bad way. At Wizards I have read for quite a while how easy it is to be Gowk. Over and over.... he is simple to beat. The people that have posted that never post the squad they use. They never post a score or even give a play by play. They just make a statement. I can say I am king of the world.... it doesnt make it so.

So I have begun challenging these people to come and show me what makes him so easy to beat. I want that info. I think I have a pretty decent grasp of the game more so than some others. I have found nothing..... LET ME SAY AGAIN NOTHING!!!! that can consistently beat Gowk. A Gowk hate squad can only win possibly 45% of its games at best! A hate squad prior to Gowk should win at least 75% and has.

I have played it against:

Palps and Vader
B&B
Push
Lightening
Vong
Gungans
Missles
Double Flame Broiled

I have yet to see something that hurts it. I played a game against Jonnyb's Twilek BSV squad (a very good and creative squad one of the better out there) I avoided 800 damage and walked away feeling dirty. Why????? Because my squad did not need to be good or creative I just needed to roll an 11 or 7 or 3. If that is what people want from this game then either they dont get as bored as quickly as I do or they don't want to be creative.

I have heard the arguments of you guys are whiners be creative. Those words are never backed up by this is what works. This destroys him. Just be creative..... Or I have been told I am not a good player and I lack creativity....

Well instead of just saying that stuff I want folks to get on vassal, drive to missouri or tell me where you live so I can go there and show me how bad I am and how uncreative I am. I want them to beat the living crap out of me since it is so easy. It has not happened yet.

I can promise you Gowk will not be changed by Rob as of now. I know that for a fact. The only way to get his attention is to ban a piece that he designed and hope that sends him back to the drawing board to fix this.

If Gowk is not changed all these people that think he is easy will find out that he is truly dominant. The best players in the world will have an edge (not that they have not had one before ) but this time it will be bigger than ever. They will know without a doubt what is being played at every venue from the Local Game Store to the Championships at Gencon. They will have it easier than they ever have. I realize that not everyone cares about competitive star wars miniatures but if you dont then the ban does not effect you.

Try to remember no one including the people calling for the ban want to ban a figure. But also remember that the people that are being called whiners and told they are not creative are also the people that were the first to discover almost every current game mechanic around. I have 3 squads that are retired on shoebox (anyone remember that old site) because they were favorites of so many. So calling me out and saying I am not creative just doesn't fit the facts. Same for the others.

I understand people dont want a ban... hell neither do I. But asking for an errata or a change will not get Rob's attention. I email Rob as part of my DCI Content Manager job. When I banned Mustafar he and I conversed about it. I emailed him 6 months ago before the Clone Wars Starter was released to the public telling him there was a problem. I still have not gotten an answer about it.
kenred2
Posted: Friday, June 26, 2009 7:03:23 PM
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Uggie Demo wrote:
Sorry to make you upset dean, and I didn't know that Rob dosen't pay attention to the game, again I agree with IG, I think that something could be done with GOWK then banning him maybe taking away mettle? or changing soresu style mastery?


Taking Mettle won't change a thing, since Billiv thoroughly explained: http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1155157&page=26

I am actually writing up a request to WOTC Sarah about the current situation of GOWK's new errata. I believe I've written many times from the WOTC forum, that instead for GOWK's Soresu Mastery to work on all attacks, it should be limited to adjacent enemies.
Jonnyb815
Posted: Friday, June 26, 2009 7:07:03 PM
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vanlanning wrote:
The only thing I can say about GOWK is he is countered by Lord vader, and is most definitely not unstoppable.


Like dean said the best hate squad vs GOWK shooter is 45% at best. GOWK melee should lose to VONG. I have beat GOWK with my Vigos and Gungan swarms. But they are about 35% at best and get killed vs lacer/yodabuck. I have had some of the most craziest games vs GOWK. a 10 hp gowk vs a 80 GOWK taking out the support. GOWK only taking 40 damage out of around 800 with vigos. Bill failing about 80% of his saves and the game was still close vs my gungans. Sorry he needs to go after my games. All 3 games were vs top players. Gencon winner,3rd place at gencon,Regional winner.

A hate squad should win 65-75 % of the time not 50%. If you dont understand why he is going bye bye I dont think you will ever understand.

sharron
Posted: Friday, June 26, 2009 7:13:33 PM
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ewokballs88 wrote:
i totally agree that gowk is very very very hard to take down. I killed all of his squad and he came back and nearly beat me. Although i hate seein this guy i would hate to see him get banned. I do think its wrong for new guys to come in without a clue how to play the game and just automatically be a competitor, but at the same time he is obi-wan he killed maul, anakin(at full strength and force), and grievous. He deserves a great piece. Maybe just limit ssm to melee attacks, keepin him all powerful but an easier weakness.


i agree with everything you just said. dont ban him, just errata him to melee attacks, or no commander effect or something. good call ewokballs.
krux
Posted: Friday, June 26, 2009 10:24:28 PM
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Joined: 6/19/2009
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Why banning GOWK? In the regionals, some GOWK squads ended in the last places. Rebel Push squads never end in the last places, always in the top places. And GMY (Grand Master Yoda) sux, compared to GOWK. I'd never play Grand Master Yoda in a tourney.
Sithborg
Posted: Saturday, June 27, 2009 12:15:13 AM
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Joined: 8/24/2008
Posts: 5,201
kenred2 wrote:
Uggie Demo wrote:
Sorry to make you upset dean, and I didn't know that Rob dosen't pay attention to the game, again I agree with IG, I think that something could be done with GOWK then banning him maybe taking away mettle? or changing soresu style mastery?


Taking Mettle won't change a thing, since Billiv thoroughly explained: http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1155157&page=26

I am actually writing up a request to WOTC Sarah about the current situation of GOWK's new errata. I believe I've written many times from the WOTC forum, that instead for GOWK's Soresu Mastery to work on all attacks, it should be limited to adjacent enemies.


Just try to keep your ego in place and just ask for an errata. You tend to come off as an egomaniac, which will not help your case.

And really, Yoda is bad? I guess I missed the part where +3/+3 CE's are terrible, and the ability to attack an enemy at +19 four times from 6 squares away is terrible. Ataru Mastery is very easy to get with R2.
awesome
Posted: Saturday, June 27, 2009 2:08:11 AM
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krux wrote:
Why banning GOWK? In the regionals, some Lobo GOWK squads ended in the last places. Rebel Push squads never end in the last places, always in the top places. And GMY (Grand Master Yoda) sux, compared to GOWK. I'd never play Grand Master Yoda in a tourney.




GM Yoda doesnt suck, he is actually better than GOWK, with Ataru Style Mastery, he can do 80 damage at a +19 or he can lightsaber throw and do 40 damage to all with a +19(if only 1 enemy is within 6), and Ataru is easy to achieve when you have R2-Astromech.

and Yoda gives A +3 and +3 which sure is less than GOWK's but you can Mas Ameda this one,

and Yoda isnt as hard to beat because he only gets 1 save and thats if he spends a force point,

I think they made Yoda because they knew they were going to ban GOWK so they made a dulled down power house.
Volvagia14
Posted: Saturday, June 27, 2009 2:12:18 AM
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Maybe if his cost was raised a bit...

anyway, what I think the problem is is that, yes some people(SOME) are blowing this a bit out of proportion(not looking any anyone in particular)
but the MAIN REASON IS: that the people who do play GOWK don't really play him. they live him.

what I'm saying is that most people who play GOWK play him over and over and over and over...


I myself (I am truthful :) have played GOWK allot, but lately I have been considering giving him a retirement plan, because I know how people get annoyed or bored when playing him because, yes he is beatable, but only with hate or luck.

that is my 2cents on this whole ordeal.
dnemiller
Posted: Saturday, June 27, 2009 3:13:16 AM
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krux wrote:
Why banning GOWK? In the regionals, some Lobo GOWK squads ended in the last places. Rebel Push squads never end in the last places, always in the top places. And GMY (Grand Master Yoda) sux, compared to GOWK. I'd never play Grand Master Yoda in a tourney.


So before you make a claim like this could you at least say which Regional this happened at? Or are you just making a general uninformed statement?

It appears so when you follow it up with you GM Yoda sux comment1
krux
Posted: Saturday, June 27, 2009 3:58:22 AM
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I mean Yoda is very very good but he's not as powerful as GOWK because he doesn't have the Soresu Mastery/MOTF2. Some good shooters could cause Yoda some problems, that's why i would prefer play another faction (NR and Rebels have Evade + FPs to reroll...and mobile push is fun). But Yoda is more an offensive piece than GOWK (Ataru/Throw) so it's great for the game. Only Kruhk really sux. PS: R2-D2 Astromech Droid should be banned too : Tow Cable is too powerful LoL
DarthJak
Posted: Saturday, June 27, 2009 4:15:07 AM
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the only wrong with GOWK is that he is priced to low, he needs to be priced 15-20 points more. Sneaky
jeremiah
Posted: Saturday, June 27, 2009 4:32:54 AM
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GOWK is a joke Laugh
Jonnyb815
Posted: Saturday, June 27, 2009 4:55:09 AM
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DarthJak wrote:
the only wrong with GOWK is that he is priced to low, he needs to be priced 15-20 points more. Sneaky


Again thats dumb. now in a 150 game your opponent can only kill 75 points to win. With GOWK at 75-80 you wont be able to win on points. You will have to kill him now so cannon squads,Gungan squads, and any squad that is made to kill GOWK support and win wont be able to.
Uggie Demo
Posted: Saturday, June 27, 2009 6:30:06 AM
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I agree, making him cost more wont work.
RannKonnar
Posted: Saturday, June 27, 2009 7:36:17 AM
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DarthJak wrote:
the only wrong with GOWK is that he is priced to low, he needs to be priced 15-20 points more. Sneaky

No hes not!
He perfectly priced!
I dont know WHY all you people make such a big fuss about him!
Hes SO easy to kill!
luke hates thrawn
Posted: Saturday, June 27, 2009 8:18:21 AM
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Listen people who say GOWK is easy to kill. When you play a 150, GOWK is NOT the only piece your opponent has. so you will most likely have 60+ points trying to kill GOWK, and the rest attacking whoever, while your opponent has 150 points going after your squad with an average 75% to hit you.
defender390
Posted: Saturday, June 27, 2009 8:57:08 AM
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I have generally stayed out of the discussions about General Obi-Wan Kenobi, but I would like to put my two cents in. To start out, I do not like to play competitively and I do not play on Vassal. I have pondered Kenobi for a while, and I came to these conclusions.

1. The problem with Kenobi is not necessarily just him, it is also his support. Kenobi made the plethera of good pieces in the Republic amazing. For example, if a piece with the exact same stats were made for the Old Republic, I doubt there would be many complaints over him. By the time the Old Republic got the support necessary to abuse the commander effect, the Meta would have moved on.
2. The issue is not the difficulty of beating a Kenobi squad, it is the variety in tournament formats. Kenobi is undeniably an excellent piece and the purpose of a tournament is to win, obviously. This severely limits the squads you will face to Kenobi squads, Kenobi counter squads, and squads that counter the counters. This severly limits what you can pick from and expect to win. I assume it is not very fun facing slight variations of the same squads all day long.
3. Kenobi will not be banned forever. Competitive play simply needs to catch up to him. It may take one or two more sets, but we will see him again. By then, people will have new great pieces to play and Kenobi will no longer be in a league of his own.

In conclusion, Kenobi is not unbeatable. I am not in favor of banning, but he simply makes the game boring. This is for the good of the game, we simply need to hope that this does not open the floodgates to other bannings (which I sincerely doubt). I realize many of these things have already been pointed out, I simply wanted to give my own opinion.

P.S. - As I said, I do not play competitively, but I know some people who do. Back around Clone Strike, I could have sworn Aurra Sing was banned. Was this a gentleman's agreement, or official?
IronLung
Posted: Saturday, June 27, 2009 9:31:07 AM
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I personally don't want it to get banned just change the errata. Then the game turns into Magic the Gathering and those other collectable games where the top few % of the players that are good enough to BREAK the game with overpowered mini start to run the game. I understand how it screws up the Meta but if Rob listens to the top players they are a only small % of who plays the game it separates the top from the bulk of the players. Which will cause peeps to lose interest in the game..... Right now a new player can get GOWK and the most important part a map for cheaper than a booster and compete maybe even win and be hooked.


Sorry to run on but I am a decent player and never have played one of the best players in the world like 90% of the peeps that play SWM. Banning the Figure will cause peeps to call for more bans causing the game to be geared around tourny's not having fun.
swmimperial130
Posted: Saturday, June 27, 2009 9:43:03 AM
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Uggie Demo wrote:
Ok we are going to know if he is banned or not july 1st, and I have to say a few words; Why are some people whinning about gowk???Confused He is not that hard to beat and not as broken as GG DAC(and a few other characters) I just dont get it why some of the players hate him and just give up once they see him on the other end of the board, stop complaning and except the challenge, but there isn't really anything we can do about it, the choice has been made and we will find out what it is on july 1st.
The only thing I dont like about him is that He can bought for less then $6 and very easy to get.
(Unlike GG DAC, Boba BH, Jar Jar ect.)

Yes. And, if he gets close enough, Count Dooku of Serenno. In the rules book it states "When hit by a melee attack, this character takes no damage with a save of 11. Shii-Cho, Soresu, Ataru, and Niman Styles (including style mastery) cannot be used against this character.
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