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General_Grievous
Posted: Monday, July 24, 2017 9:56:43 AM
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He is a very solid piece and has some great new abilities for sure. I'm not a huge OR guy but would be cool to see some of these abilities make it onto more force users. Great design to counter power creep for damage
TimmerB123
Posted: Monday, July 24, 2017 11:05:44 AM
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General_Grievous wrote:
Great design to counter power creep for damage


I love this sentence.

A big part of Ven's design is exactly that. Well put.
Deaths_Baine
Posted: Monday, July 24, 2017 11:24:22 AM
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He's a fantastic piece of work and one of the main reason I wanted to dive back into the game. I mean with him and bastilla together it nerfs a ton of my personal npe's while being a playstyle I love.
shmi15
Posted: Monday, July 24, 2017 11:25:29 AM
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Deaths_Baine wrote:
really thought there would be more buzz about this guy. maybe when people play around with him they will get excited.



I'm excited about it... But I agree with Donny, that this should be how most Force Users are. The fact that a guy from a cool promotion for a video game has become the poster boy for how a Force User SHOULD be is a little disappointing. My only hope is that the Sith eventually have access to something like this, and that future, more famous Jedi, will be modeled after him.

Good stat block, but this is what Force Users SHOULD look like. Hopefully designers continue down this path.
Deaths_Baine
Posted: Monday, July 24, 2017 12:04:46 PM
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No sir no complaints about this piece he is perfect.
donnyrides
Posted: Monday, July 24, 2017 12:41:46 PM
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He is pretty good, but let's take a cold shower quick and here's why:

Stalwart [Immune to enemy abilities and commander effects that trigger based on a critical hit or or the attack number rolled. Whenever this character takes more than 10 damage from an enemy's ability that replaces attacks, immediately reduce the damage to 10. The reduced damage cannot be prevented or redirected.]

So, some clown cheap minmax piece that is super buffed to be double twin 16 for 40 will still have their way with him if adjacent especially.

Too bad Stalwart had to say "from an enemy's ability...." instead of "from any ability...". He would have been the hands down very best character to ride Thon.
Deaths_Baine
Posted: Monday, July 24, 2017 12:49:54 PM
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donnyrides wrote:
He is pretty good, but let's take a cold shower quick and here's why:

Stalwart [Immune to enemy abilities and commander effects that trigger based on a critical hit or or the attack number rolled. Whenever this character takes more than 10 damage from an enemy's ability that replaces attacks, immediately reduce the damage to 10. The reduced damage cannot be prevented or redirected.]

So, some clown cheap minmax piece that is super buffed to be double twin 16 for 40 will still have their way with him if adjacent especially.

Too bad Stalwart had to say "from an enemy's ability...." instead of "from any ability...". He would have been the hands down very best character to ride Thon.



Hard to be buffed when Bastilla is going on also you have satele bodyguarding it's no easy squad at all.
General_Grievous
Posted: Monday, July 24, 2017 1:00:02 PM
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Deaths_Baine wrote:
He's a fantastic piece of work and one of the main reason I wanted to dive back into the game. I mean with him and bastilla together it nerfs a ton of my personal npe's while being a playstyle I love.


It's true, take that blast bugs!
atmsalad
Posted: Monday, July 24, 2017 1:11:36 PM
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General_Grievous wrote:
Deaths_Baine wrote:
He's a fantastic piece of work and one of the main reason I wanted to dive back into the game. I mean with him and bastilla together it nerfs a ton of my personal npe's while being a playstyle I love.


It's true, take that blast bugs!


That awkward moment when blast bugs damage was written as unpreventable... But I could be wrong
Caedus
Posted: Monday, July 24, 2017 1:21:48 PM
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atmsalad wrote:
General_Grievous wrote:
Deaths_Baine wrote:
He's a fantastic piece of work and one of the main reason I wanted to dive back into the game. I mean with him and bastilla together it nerfs a ton of my personal npe's while being a playstyle I love.


It's true, take that blast bugs!


That awkward moment when blast bugs damage was written as unpreventable... But I could be wrong


No, your not. Crying
General_Grievous
Posted: Monday, July 24, 2017 3:30:56 PM
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Caedus wrote:
atmsalad wrote:
General_Grievous wrote:
Deaths_Baine wrote:
He's a fantastic piece of work and one of the main reason I wanted to dive back into the game. I mean with him and bastilla together it nerfs a ton of my personal npe's while being a playstyle I love.


It's true, take that blast bugs!


That awkward moment when blast bugs damage was written as unpreventable... But I could be wrong


No, your not. Crying


This is so awkward for everyone.... hahahaha
Deaths_Baine
Posted: Monday, July 24, 2017 3:36:57 PM
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General_Grievous wrote:
Caedus wrote:
atmsalad wrote:
General_Grievous wrote:
Deaths_Baine wrote:
He's a fantastic piece of work and one of the main reason I wanted to dive back into the game. I mean with him and bastilla together it nerfs a ton of my personal npe's while being a playstyle I love.


It's true, take that blast bugs!


That awkward moment when blast bugs damage was written as unpreventable... But I could be wrong


No, your not. Crying


This is so awkward for everyone.... hahahaha



nah not for me, I know it doesn't counter blast bugs... those things are to stupid to have counters, they just need nerfed lol Bomb
atmsalad
Posted: Monday, July 24, 2017 3:59:36 PM
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Deaths_Baine wrote:
General_Grievous wrote:
Caedus wrote:
atmsalad wrote:
General_Grievous wrote:
Deaths_Baine wrote:
He's a fantastic piece of work and one of the main reason I wanted to dive back into the game. I mean with him and bastilla together it nerfs a ton of my personal npe's while being a playstyle I love.


It's true, take that blast bugs!


That awkward moment when blast bugs damage was written as unpreventable... But I could be wrong


No, your not. Crying


This is so awkward for everyone.... hahahaha



nah not for me, I know it doesn't counter blast bugs... those things are to stupid to have counters, they just need nerfed lol Bomb


Agreed, "hey, lets give the most anti Jedi faction in the game an uber anti Jedi ability..."
Deaths_Baine
Posted: Monday, July 24, 2017 4:04:34 PM
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atmsalad wrote:
Deaths_Baine wrote:
General_Grievous wrote:
Caedus wrote:
atmsalad wrote:
General_Grievous wrote:
Deaths_Baine wrote:
He's a fantastic piece of work and one of the main reason I wanted to dive back into the game. I mean with him and bastilla together it nerfs a ton of my personal npe's while being a playstyle I love.


It's true, take that blast bugs!


That awkward moment when blast bugs damage was written as unpreventable... But I could be wrong


No, your not. Crying


This is so awkward for everyone.... hahahaha



nah not for me, I know it doesn't counter blast bugs... those things are to stupid to have counters, they just need nerfed lol Bomb


Agreed, "hey, lets give the most anti Jedi faction in the game an uber anti Jedi ability..."




hey balance committee ThumpUp ThumpUp ThumpUp i'm point to something you should change.

But back to set 14 seriously... I love this guy. I may come to gencon next year just because this guy exists lol
shmi15
Posted: Monday, July 24, 2017 4:21:17 PM
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Joined: 4/19/2010
Posts: 1,290
Deaths_Baine wrote:
atmsalad wrote:
Deaths_Baine wrote:
General_Grievous wrote:
Caedus wrote:
atmsalad wrote:
General_Grievous wrote:
Deaths_Baine wrote:
He's a fantastic piece of work and one of the main reason I wanted to dive back into the game. I mean with him and bastilla together it nerfs a ton of my personal npe's while being a playstyle I love.


It's true, take that blast bugs!


That awkward moment when blast bugs damage was written as unpreventable... But I could be wrong


No, your not. Crying


This is so awkward for everyone.... hahahaha



nah not for me, I know it doesn't counter blast bugs... those things are to stupid to have counters, they just need nerfed lol Bomb


Agreed, "hey, lets give the most anti Jedi faction in the game an uber anti Jedi ability..."




hey balance committee ThumpUp ThumpUp ThumpUp i'm point to something you should change.

But back to set 14 seriously... I love this guy. I may come to gencon next year just because this guy exists lol



I will also. I will bring Blast Bugs LOL
DarkDracul
Posted: Tuesday, July 25, 2017 2:35:02 AM
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donnyrides wrote:
I know people throw shade a lot on here, but the execution of the holocron, IMO, is terrible.

I would have just added it to a jedi by simply putting the card slightly beneath the choosen ally, and the choosen ally gets whatever the holocron gives. Then when the choosen ally dies, the holocron goes to the next valid adjacent character or it dies as well.

making it a physical piece is silly.

I love the concept, it's something I've wanted for a while, but making it move with a character and occupy new squares is odd to me.
Designers oppose “equipments” in Star Wars Miniatures for multiple reasons. For one the purpose of the V-Sets is to continue the game, not change its fundamental structure. It's a Miniatures game, not a card game. If we get to the point of “Special Ability” cards that tuck away build points, don’t activate, or do anything on the battle grid . . . then I'll have lost a great deal of respect for this game.

V-set cards should represent playable characters, droids or things that “contain” characters like troop carts and bacta tanks. . . Equipment like, swords, guns, blowguns, and talismans should remain as Special Abilities.

The 2016 GenCon winner wanted to design a Jedi Holocron and a holocron is NOT some ordinary piece of equipment. If you’ve read the novels, comics, or watched Rebels then you know Holocrons “contain” a gatekeeper, the memory remnant or actual spirit, of a Jedi or Sith. You’ve also seen Holocrons levitate and fly around force users, speak to them, cast holographic projections, teach secret knowledge, even physically unlock temple doors.
"Sith holocrons are keys that can open many doors." ―Maul

Holocrons contain characters and do enough active "physical" stuff to justify them as characters. They’re little droid/ cyborgs in a small cube or pyramid that become active around a force user. They're more like a Hellraiser Puzzlebox with its own minds than a freaking pocket comb. Plenty of examples of holocrons doing stuff; even Darth Krayt himself got seriously messed up by some holocrons he ticked off.

(btw... they're levitating around him.)
Krayt possessed not only the holocrons of Bane, Nihilus, and Andeddu (which contained an actual spirit) but even created his own holo. Heck, even Yoda created a holocron. Which leads us to another problem, if holocrons are characters, how many do we need? Do we need to make a “Yoda’s Holocron” over new movie characters? HECK NO!

The solution our team came up with was for the GenCon winner to design a generic Non-Unique Holocron as a platform for future design. Then we can follow the precedent set by “Muur Talisman” and let future characters, like our Darth Baras with “Tulak Hord’s Holocron” SA, make 1 non-unique holocron on his squad something unique.

Other designers can speak more passionately as to the folly of making "equiptment" cards in Star Wars Miniatures.
I can perhaps best speak to the thematic reasons for making holocrons actual characters based upon Star Wars lore.

Here’s the first line in the Glossary Entry for Holocron.
Glossary Entry: Holocron This character is a crystalline storage device for Force Powers.

In NEW Star Wars Canon and in Legends Holocrons are made of force-attuned crystals. These crystals are composed of both organic and inorganic matter. The crystals resonate with the force and exhibit a "collective consciousness", veering on the edge of sentience, and can communicate with both one another and living beings. The crystals grow in an organized way, adding to their prismatic structure one piece at a time. They contain the memories and ancient lessons of the Jedi and Sith. They appeared as palm-sized, glowing polyhedrons of crystalline material and hardware. They could only be accessed by those attuned to the force. Data playback typically took the form of an interactive hologram resembling the person who recorded the information; while some holocrons contain the departed spirit of the Jedi or Sith who created it.

What I got out of that was . . . if mouse droids and force spirits can be characters . . . then so can Holocrons.
Lord_Ball
Posted: Tuesday, July 25, 2017 3:38:36 AM
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DarkDracul wrote:
Designers oppose “equipments” in Star Wars Miniatures for multiple reasons. For one the purpose of the V-Sets is to continue the game, not change its fundamental structure.


Confused That kind of went out the window with DotF and ABM... CEs were/are a part of the fundamental structure, so boardwide cancellation of enemy CEs absolutely changed the fundamental structure.

Not looking to start an argument or anything, just saying that the structure has already been changed multiple times to varying degrees.

Edit: Full Disclaimer: I personally am not interested in seeing equipment as it wouldn't be balanced very well, especially if a piece of equipment could be used to end up mitigating a strong characters weakness.
General_Grievous
Posted: Tuesday, July 25, 2017 4:30:46 AM
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Well said DD, I actually wasn't sure how I felt about the holocron being in the game as I'm one of those guys against generic equipment as I think the game is complicated enough as is with all of the CEs, SAs and FP/FAs haha. But holocrons came in all shapes and sizes and did some pretty crazy stuff over the years. Great case and you changed my opinion on it. As far as future equipment, just do more merchants haha.
shmi15
Posted: Tuesday, July 25, 2017 4:57:55 AM
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Lord_Ball wrote:
DarkDracul wrote:
Designers oppose “equipments” in Star Wars Miniatures for multiple reasons. For one the purpose of the V-Sets is to continue the game, not change its fundamental structure.


Confused That kind of went out the window with DotF and ABM... CEs were/are a part of the fundamental structure, so boardwide cancellation of enemy CEs absolutely changed the fundamental structure.

Not looking to start an argument or anything, just saying that the structure has already been changed multiple times to varying degrees.


And the vehicles! don't forget them! Start with one character, jump off and become another.

Oh, and how about Non Unique Swarms doing unpreventable damage? Not sure but that seems like a fundamental structure.

SBM? Not aware of any WoTC ability that allowed anyone to move enemy units? (Except Force Push, which is VERY different)

Atris? Boadwide +4 for allies, and Boardwide -4 for enemies?

Daala? I don't recall WoTC being so "swarm" heavy, my memory of them was more of Heroes leading the way, not 15 troopers doing 80 damage a piece.

I could go on, but, like LB said, no need to start an argument, just pointing out things that have already fundamentally changed the game from the V-sets PoV. Why not just say " We (the designers) Don't want to do it?


NEW SA FOR EQUIPMENT- When Equipped character activates, it counts as 2 characters activating.

there ya go, problem solved. Now you guys don't have to be scared to create Equipment

CorellianComedian
Posted: Tuesday, July 25, 2017 6:44:41 PM
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I have to say, I really, REALLY want to run a squad with four or five Outriders on Speeder Bikes.

Although it does no damage, it would be SO MUCH FUN to just destroy your opponent's organization LOL
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