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TheHutts
Posted: Monday, October 27, 2014 12:25:16 AM
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Generally I think that most pieces that were top tier immediately before the v-sets are still top tier, and Kyle Katarn Jedi Battlemaster is a rare exception. It feels like Solo Charge was developed during that Regional season, and emerged as the best all round New Republic squad, but Kyle was still a factor because he was a very tough matchup for Skybuck. If someone had said that Universe Kyle Katarn would emerge as the most powerful version of Kyle in the 2014 game, I don't think they would have been taken seriously.....
FlyingArrow
Posted: Monday, October 27, 2014 7:42:29 AM
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Of the handful of Tier 1 squads at the end of WotC, I think the NR squads have had it the worst in the current meta. Kyle is part of that.
TheHutts
Posted: Monday, October 27, 2014 4:53:43 PM
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I'd still give Mara (already got a 10), Han, Ganner, and Anakin marks all in the 9-11 range, even if the meta doesn't necessarily suit them all that much right now - although in New Zealand, Sharron does well with his Solo Charge variant (has a Vong bodyguard instead of Gha Nachkt), and he took them to the Top 4 at LowerHuttACon.

There were 10 Kyle squads in the 2010 GenCon Championships (out of 55 total), including one in the top 8, while there were only 2 Han GH squads - one at 10th, and the other made the top half.




New Republic Trooper, from Universe



Quote:
10 points, New Republic
Hit Points: 10
Defense: 13
Attack: 7
Damage: 20

Special Abilities
Advantageous Cover (+8 Defense from cover instead of +4)


The New Republic faction is celebrated, particularly in the WOTC era, for almost exclusively building around Uniques for tournament play, and the New Republic Trooper is a good case in point. It's hard to justify 10 points on a 10 hit point piece with little interesting going on. Even though it can pick up a few CEs, like Cunning from Kanth Hamner, you'd always take the 8 point Galactic Alliance Guard Sniper, which has an extra 10 hit points, Sniper, and Stealth, or an Antarian Ranger as a filler shooter, while if you're building a New Republic Trooper squad, I'd build around something like the Galactic Alliance Special Forces Trooper. It's the cheapest piece with access to NR Trooper synergies, which is arguably noteworthy enough to redeem it for a 1, but the New Republic Trooper is so fragile for the cost that any squad built around it is going to struggle, 2/10.
TheHutts
Posted: Monday, October 27, 2014 7:14:26 PM
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Joined: 6/23/2010
Posts: 3,561
Location: The Hutt, New Zealand
Mon Calamari Knight, from The Clone Wars



Quote:
14 points, Republic
Hit Points: 40
Defense: 20
Attack: 6
Damage: 20

Special Abilities
Melee Attack (Can attack only adjacent enemies)


It makes the Wookie Beserker look good (I'd take the -2 cost and momentum over a good defense most of the time). It makes the Klat Assassin look like its from a different game. There's no reason to play the Mon Calamari Knight ever and it's one of the worst WOTC filler pieces ever, 2/10. *

* I guess the 20 defense is worth something, so I've raised him to a 2, but I think he's a very bad 2.
Deaths_Baine
Posted: Monday, October 27, 2014 8:26:44 PM
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Joined: 5/31/2010
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TheHutts wrote:
Mon Calamari Knight, from The Clone Wars



Quote:
14 points, Republic
Hit Points: 40
Defense: 20
Attack: 6
Damage: 20

Special Abilities
Melee Attack (Can attack only adjacent enemies)


It makes the Wookie Beserker look good (I'd take the -2 cost and momentum over a good defense most of the time). It makes the Klat Assassin look like its from a different game. There's no reason to play the Mon Calamari Knight ever and it's one of the worst WOTC filler pieces ever, 1/10.



I don't know with gowk they are a non-unique with a 24 defense that's not to bad and a 10 attack for 20. got to be at least a 2 :)
FlyingArrow
Posted: Monday, October 27, 2014 8:41:43 PM
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Agreed. Terrible but defense makes it a 2.
swinefeld
Posted: Monday, October 27, 2014 9:18:01 PM
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Joined: 1/30/2009
Posts: 6,457
Location: Southern Illinois
FlyingArrow wrote:
Agreed. Terrible but defense makes it a 2.


The Utapaun Warrior is another one from Clone Wars. Pretty good HP and defense for WotC scrubs, but too expensive and weak otherwise. I guess the shields on their sculpts were meant to account for the high defense.

Someday, Pau'ans will rule. Also Niktos. If Klats can be awesome, why not? Razz

TheHutts
Posted: Tuesday, October 28, 2014 12:00:56 AM
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Location: The Hutt, New Zealand
The 20 defense is certainly an outlier, but I don't think it's enough to make it playable. No way I'd take two Mon Calamari Knights over a Jedi Weapon Master, or a Mon Calamari Knight over five Mouse Droids if I want blockers. Utapaun Warrior has an extra 10 hit points too - it's probably better in that role as well.
FlyingArrow
Posted: Tuesday, October 28, 2014 3:44:42 AM
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Agreed. 2 isn't playable.
TheHutts
Posted: Wednesday, October 29, 2014 1:14:50 PM
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OK, I'm changing the Mon Calamari Knight to a 2, since I'm clearly outvoted, but I want to let you know that this is under sufferance.

ARC Trooper Captain Fordo, from Command of the Galaxy



Quote:
27 points, Republic
Hit Points: 70
Defense: 19
Attack: 12
Damage: 20

Special Abilities
Unique
Order 66
Twin Attack (Whenever this character attacks, he makes 1 extra attack against the same target)
Disciplined Leader (This character's commander effect cannot be suppressed)
Grenades 20 (Replaces attacks: range 6; 20 damage to target and to each character adjacent to that target; save 11)
Hand Signals (Allies with Order 66 are not affected by enemy abilities that suppress commander effects while they have line of sight to this character)
Recon (Roll twice for initiative once per round, choosing either roll, if any character with Recon in the same squad has line of sight to an enemy)
Synergy +4 (Allies whose names contain ARC Trooper get +4 Attack and +4 Defense while within 6 squares of this character)

Commander Effect
Allies within 6 squares named ARC Trooper gain Double Attack.


My money would have been on the v-set designers trashing the ARC Trooper and making a v-set redux version - they're a weak early piece, with a single attack and 40 hit points representing a poor deal for 18 points. But with the addition of v-set pieces Ordo and Fordo, in tandem with Captain Rex, they're suddenly very playable - GMA double/twin shooters in a squad like the Andy Hatton designed effort below, shooting at a very respectable +14 with Fordo's synergy:

Quote:
--Oh Captain, my ARC Captain--
34 Null ARC Trooper Captain Ordo
33 Captain Rex
27 ARC Trooper Captain Fordo
27 Lobot
54 ARC Trooper x3
9 R2-D2, Astromech Droid
8 Mas Amedda
5 Rodian Diplomat
3 Ugnaught Demolitionist

Preferred Reinforcements:
(Lobot) 16 R7 Astromech Droid x2
(Lobot) 3 Ugnaught Demolitionist

(200pts. 14 activations)


While I like Bastila Jedi Master keeping CEs under control, and I'm not a big fan of boosts that ignore her Advanced Battle Meditation, in the case of ARC Troopers it's well warranted. They're such a weak piece without Commander Effects that they need the extra love, and Hand Signals and Disciplined Leader help the ARCs to keep their Commander Effects against CE counters like Bastila and Disruptive. This makes the ARC Trooper squads much stronger, although they still have a fair share of bad matchups - the 40 hit point ARCs are vulnerable against Yobuck and Lancer, and they don't have any answer to tempo control either. But they at least have the potential to be a tournament-level squad, and Fordo's double attack CE and CE sustenance abilities are a major contributor to this. 9/10.
AndyHatton
Posted: Wednesday, October 29, 2014 2:06:41 PM
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Joined: 8/9/2009
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TheHutts wrote:


My money would have been on the v-set designers trashing the ARC Trooper and making a v-set redux version - they're a weak early piece, with a single attack and 40 hit points representing a poor deal for 18 points. But with the addition of v-set pieces Ordo and Fordo, in tandem with Captain Rex, they're suddenly very playable - GMA double/twin shooters in a squad like the Andy Hatton designed effort below, shooting at a very respectable +14 with Fordo's synergy:


Oh wow, I DID IT!! Scared ThumbsUp

I'm very fond of ARC Troopers (obviously,) especially their Captains. And yeah the OGs were real bad for a while, but Fordo, Ordo and Rex all help so much (and are great shooters on their own.) I think I only played this a few times, against Vong and Daala and they didn't fair too well but I think its time to bring them back out because this has inspired me to try them again. Its been too long. BlooMilk
TheHutts
Posted: Wednesday, October 29, 2014 3:14:18 PM
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Location: The Hutt, New Zealand
It's actually very similar (maybe identical?) to the squad I used to playtest Fordo with; I think it's the optimised build if you want to play ARC Troopers.

It is very good, but I think for that type of squad (a squishy group of Double Twin GMA shooters), for a tournament the Jason (or Laura) Echani squad does similar things more effectively - even though you have less attackers, you get more tricks with Swap, Accurate Shot, and Master Tactician, as well as more damage and higher attacks. The ARC build certainly has its advantages though - it has Lobot for customisation, among other things.
FlyingArrow
Posted: Wednesday, October 29, 2014 8:03:40 PM
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AndyHatton wrote:
TheHutts wrote:


My money would have been on the v-set designers trashing the ARC Trooper and making a v-set redux version - they're a weak early piece, with a single attack and 40 hit points representing a poor deal for 18 points. But with the addition of v-set pieces Ordo and Fordo, in tandem with Captain Rex, they're suddenly very playable - GMA double/twin shooters in a squad like the Andy Hatton designed effort below, shooting at a very respectable +14 with Fordo's synergy:


Oh wow, I DID IT!! Scared ThumbsUp

I'm very fond of ARC Troopers (obviously,) especially their Captains. And yeah the OGs were real bad for a while, but Fordo, Ordo and Rex all help so much (and are great shooters on their own.) I think I only played this a few times, against Vong and Daala and they didn't fair too well but I think its time to bring them back out because this has inspired me to try them again. Its been too long. BlooMilk


It was against pre-errata Daala and Vong blastbug swarm, right? You should definitely pull those guys out again. That was a scary squad
TheHutts
Posted: Thursday, October 30, 2014 4:37:04 PM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 6/23/2010
Posts: 3,561
Location: The Hutt, New Zealand
Defel Spy, from Bounty Hunters



Quote:
14 points, Fringe
Hit Points: 30
Defense: 14
Attack: 6
Damage: 10

Special Abilities
Cunning Attack (+4 Attack and +10 Damage against an enemy who has not activated this round)
Evade (When hit by an attack from a nonadjacent enemy, this character takes no damage with a save of 11)
Loner (+4 Attack if no allies are within 6 squares)
Stealth (If this character has cover, he does not count as the nearest enemy for an attacker farther than 6 squares when choosing targets)


The Defel Pirate has already been covered on Rolling Mini of the Day - I discussed how:
a) Defel Pirate builds could be decent with Niles Ferrier's super-stealth and +4 attack bonus, but they're inevitably going to be worse compared to similar Klat Assassin builds. The Klat Assassin has extra hit points, a higher attack, and Cloaked instead of Stealth.
b) It's unfortunate that Niles Ferrier's attack boost doesn't stack with Talon Kardde's.

I gave the Pirate a 5, and I think the Spy is very comparable - the Pirate has self-destruct 20 and is 4 points cheaper, while the Spy has extra hit points, better stats, and loner. It's kind of a wash in my book - I'd probably give the 10 point Pirate the slight edge, but there's no reason why both can't be 5/10.
AndyHatton
Posted: Thursday, October 30, 2014 4:48:37 PM
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Joined: 8/9/2009
Posts: 1,935
FlyingArrow wrote:


It was against pre-errata Daala and Vong blastbug swarm, right? You should definitely pull those guys out again. That was a scary squad


It was against the Vong Blastbug definitely (awful, even with Shatter Rifle,) and I'm not sure where on the errata time-line Daala was, but I have a feeling it was early, probably pre-all errata. I think I will be bringing ARCs the next time we play, its been too long.
TheHutts
Posted: Sunday, November 2, 2014 8:09:29 PM
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Joined: 6/23/2010
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Location: The Hutt, New Zealand
Apologies for the lack of updates, things have been busy for me over the last week or two.

Battle Droid Officer, from Clone Strike



Quote:
9 points, Separatist
Hit Points: 20
Defense: 13
Attack: 0
Damage: 10

Special Abilities
Droid (Immune to critical hits; not subject to commander effects)
Fire Control (Non-Unique Droid allies get +4 Attack)


The Battle Droid Officer is both a really strong piece, and a design I don't really like. An non-disruptable +4 attack for Droids is invaluable for most Droid squads, and it's well worth 9 points - I've even seen squads with a Lancer as the only other droid utilise a BDO. But at the same time, having a piece that chills out the back doing nothing seems like a silly design - wouldn't it just be easier to make Droids cost an extra point and have higher attacks to start with? I guess it does make gameplay feel like a droid army with commanders out the back, but it seems weird having such a bland piece sitting out the back in every Separatist droid squad. The good news is that Separatist droid squads do have an alternative source of Fire Control, with the new Commando Droid Officer also featuring it, on a much more useful and flavourful piece. The Battle Droid Officer is obviously a very strong piece, and it's an important cog for Separatist droid squads, but wouldn't it have been easier to give droids higher attacks to start with? 10/10.
Mando
Posted: Monday, November 3, 2014 7:06:49 AM
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Joined: 10/14/2008
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Location: Chokio, MN
TheHutts wrote:
Apologies for the lack of updates, things have been busy for me over the last week or two.

Battle Droid Officer, from Clone Strike



Quote:
9 points, Separatist
Hit Points: 20
Defense: 13
Attack: 0
Damage: 10

Special Abilities
Droid (Immune to critical hits; not subject to commander effects)
Fire Control (Non-Unique Droid allies get +4 Attack)


The Battle Droid Officer is both a really strong piece, and a design I don't really like. An non-disruptable +4 attack for Droids is invaluable for most Droid squads, and it's well worth 9 points - I've even seen squads with a Lancer as the only other droid utilise a BDO. But at the same time, having a piece that chills out the back doing nothing seems like a silly design - wouldn't it just be easier to make Droids cost an extra point and have higher attacks to start with? I guess it does make gameplay feel like a droid army with commanders out the back, but it seems weird having such a bland piece sitting out the back in every Separatist droid squad. The good news is that Separatist droid squads do have an alternative source of Fire Control, with the new Commando Droid Officer also featuring it, on a much more useful and flavourful piece. The Battle Droid Officer is obviously a very strong piece, and it's an important cog for Separatist droid squads, but wouldn't it have been easier to give droids higher attacks to start with? 10/10.


not 11/10? BigGrin

but seriously, if we could go past a 10 rating for this piece, I would. Definetely a 10. Every 200pt sep build basically starts at 191pts. The BDO is just that good. He is like the Mas Ameda for the seps. You just can't leave him out.
Deathwielded
Posted: Monday, November 3, 2014 7:19:01 AM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 3/19/2013
Posts: 1,249
Mando wrote:
TheHutts wrote:
Apologies for the lack of updates, things have been busy for me over the last week or two.

Battle Droid Officer, from Clone Strike



Quote:
9 points, Separatist
Hit Points: 20
Defense: 13
Attack: 0
Damage: 10

Special Abilities
Droid (Immune to critical hits; not subject to commander effects)
Fire Control (Non-Unique Droid allies get +4 Attack)


The Battle Droid Officer is both a really strong piece, and a design I don't really like. An non-disruptable +4 attack for Droids is invaluable for most Droid squads, and it's well worth 9 points - I've even seen squads with a Lancer as the only other droid utilise a BDO. But at the same time, having a piece that chills out the back doing nothing seems like a silly design - wouldn't it just be easier to make Droids cost an extra point and have higher attacks to start with? I guess it does make gameplay feel like a droid army with commanders out the back, but it seems weird having such a bland piece sitting out the back in every Separatist droid squad. The good news is that Separatist droid squads do have an alternative source of Fire Control, with the new Commando Droid Officer also featuring it, on a much more useful and flavourful piece. The Battle Droid Officer is obviously a very strong piece, and it's an important cog for Separatist droid squads, but wouldn't it have been easier to give droids higher attacks to start with? 10/10.


not 11/10? BigGrin

but seriously, if we could go past a 10 rating for this piece, I would. Definetely a 10. Every 200pt sep build basically starts at 191pts. The BDO is just that good. He is like the Mas Ameda for the seps. You just can't leave him out.


unless you're running a Cad Bane Bounty Hunter squad were you don't run droids (other than mice that is)

But seriously this guy is as important as Mas and is used just as frequently. While you may find a Republic or Empire build that doesn't need Mas he is usually an auto include, same with this piece.


Now I see what you are saying about him standing in the back and the droids could have started with a higher att. I think the designers might have been intending that this guy might be a target that once gone would hurt the droids, but realistically you rarely get into the back line of enemy territory.
countrydude82487
Posted: Monday, November 3, 2014 9:15:59 AM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 12/26/2008
Posts: 1,233
Deathwielded wrote:
Mando wrote:
TheHutts wrote:
Apologies for the lack of updates, things have been busy for me over the last week or two.

Battle Droid Officer, from Clone Strike



[quote]9 points, Separatist
Hit Points: 20
Defense: 13
Attack: 0
Damage: 10

Special Abilities
Droid (Immune to critical hits; not subject to commander effects)
Fire Control (Non-Unique Droid allies get +4 Attack)


BigGrin

but seriously, if we could go past a 10 rating for this piece, I would. Definetely a 10. Every 200pt sep build basically starts at 191pts. The BDO is just that good. He is like the Mas Ameda for the seps. You just can't leave him out.


unless you're running a Cad Bane Bounty Hunter squad were you don't run droids (other than mice that is)

But seriously this guy is as important as Mas and is used just as frequently. While you may find a Republic or Empire build that doesn't need Mas he is usually an auto include, same with this piece.


Now I see what you are saying about him standing in the back and the droids could have started with a higher att. I think the designers might have been intending that this guy might be a target that once gone would hurt the droids, but realistically you rarely get into the back line of enemy territory.



Also the new Commando droid Officer takes some of the use away. You pay more than double but the NEW Officer is well worth it in the vast majority of squads.
Deathwielded
Posted: Monday, November 3, 2014 1:06:00 PM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 3/19/2013
Posts: 1,249
countrydude82487 wrote:


Also the new Commando droid Officer takes some of the use away. You pay more than double but the NEW Officer is well worth it in the vast majority of squads.

100% agree.
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